What do I have here?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: What do I have here?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Everett on Friday, June 19, 2015 - 04:54 pm:

I have several of these; each measures about 24" OD.

I thought I'd send these to Stutzman's, but first I'd like to know what era they apply to.

In building this speedster and thinking of taking it out to see customers, the possibility of flat tires concerns me; as a Model T friend once told me, "Roadside repairs are not fun." Therefore, demountable rims make changing flats easier (at least I think they do, or at least are supposed to).

Can anyone send me a picture of the type tire that this rim is for?


Thanks.





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tyrone Thomas - Topeka KS on Friday, June 19, 2015 - 04:59 pm:

I know, I know, a rusty wheel with what appears to have wood spokes and a tape measure running across it running North to South. Two shoes and one sock all on a floor. Right?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Friday, June 19, 2015 - 05:02 pm:

That is a non-demountable clincher rim.I would check the rim for straightness and sharpnest before investing any money in it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Everett on Friday, June 19, 2015 - 05:18 pm:

Same wheel, different angle.

Is this a demountable rim?

Does it use 30 x 3 or 30 x 3-1/2" tires?



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, June 19, 2015 - 05:24 pm:

Bill

That type appears to be an aftermarket wheel, with a form of detachable tire. One side of the metal rim is for clincher bead, the other side without the clincher fold is for some type of side ring with holding device.

Note the bolts on the wood felloe that likely form part of the retention for the missing lock ring.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Peterson College Place, WA on Friday, June 19, 2015 - 05:29 pm:

To answer the question you asked, the square fellow non demountable wheel was used, I believe, from 1917-1925 non starter cars. You will have to look up in the encyclopedia just when the demountable rims became standard.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, June 19, 2015 - 05:30 pm:

Sorry, could not see the clincher rim clearly...to much sun today!

That wheel is lug type demountable. Seems like 30 x 3 1/2" 1919-1921 or so.

The clincher rim is poor shape, too rusted and beyond use now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Peterson College Place, WA on Friday, June 19, 2015 - 05:36 pm:

The type of tire is the clincher tire, picture is from Lang's catalog.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Friday, June 19, 2015 - 05:38 pm:

Me too Dan,very poor lighting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Peterson College Place, WA on Friday, June 19, 2015 - 05:39 pm:

You are right Dan, demountable clincher type, I didn't look very closely.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Friday, June 19, 2015 - 07:53 pm:

As Dan mentioned, this is an aftermarket demountable wheel. T's had four mounting bolts, not 5! If you are going to spend money on rebuilding wheels, they might as well be correct ones.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Friday, June 19, 2015 - 08:16 pm:

Bill,

Your photos are a little difficult to see if the felloe on your wheel is metal or wood. "IF" the felloe is metal and "IF" it has raised slots in it for the "loose lugs" to fit against it would most likely be a Kelsey 88 wheel used from 1919 to 1924. See the photo below courtesy of Ron Grigsby's posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/33266.html





If you felloe is wood and NOT metal, then it is an accessory wheel or a wheel from a different make of automobile, as the Ford supplied demountables used a metal felloe.

If it does NOT have the raised slots for the lugs to fit into, then it could be the Firestone/Cleveland wheels supplied to Ford that also used a loose lug. But they had a cup around the valve stem in the metal felloe to keep the rim from turning on the wheel. They also used a different loose lug than the Kelsey.

If you are planning to have the wheels rebuilt, be sure you have all the same type of wheels (felloes) and rims so you can use the same spare on all 4 wheels. See the discussion at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/135230.html

If you have additional questions please let us know.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Friday, June 19, 2015 - 08:34 pm:

Bill,

More info & pictures here:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/109798.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Saturday, June 20, 2015 - 03:31 am:

Hap, Bill's second set of photos shows 5 lug bolts. Did US cars have Kelsey 88 type felloes with the 5 bolts?I believe our Canadian sourced cars only ever had 4 bolts.

I have a couple of 23" Hayes wire wheel felloes with 5 holes, but they also have more spokes than the 48 on T wheels, so I presume they are from a different make of car.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, June 20, 2015 - 06:27 am:

Allan,

To my knowledge, the USA Kelsey 30 x 3 1/2 loose lug demountable clinchers originally installed on Fords at the factory all had 4 lugs – just like the Canadian Kelsey wheels. That is also what is shown on the USA factory drawing.

When I first looked at Bill’s photos and I was thinking “wood felloe” I was thinking 5-lug wheel. So far, I don’t know of any 4 lug accessory “wood felloe” demountable 30 x 3 1/2 wheels. If anyone else knows of a manufacture that only used 4 and also used a “wood felloe” 30 x 3 1/2 please let us know. So when I am thinking accessory demountable wood felloe wheel for a T, I am thinking 5 lugs. But if you look at the spokes there are 12 of them and there are 3 spokes between each of the lugs for 3 x 4 is 12 is the total number of spokes.





When we look at the accessory 30 x 3 1/2 wheels for the Model T with 5 lugs, they still have 12 spokes. That works out to something less than 3 spokes between all 5 lugs. Below is a photo of a 5 lug accessory STAN-WELD wheel posted by James Smith at http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/265278.html?1329097600 . It has 3 spokes between two of the lugs and 2 spokes between three of the lugs for a total of 12 spokes.



And of course I may have missed the photo you were talking about – but if it has 3 spokes between all the lugs and a total of 12 spokes it has to be a 4 lug wheel.

And for Bill please confirm if your felloe is metal (which I would think it is) or wood (which would be the first 4 lug demountable I have seen for a 30 x 3 1/2 but there is always something new to learn).

I wish there was an easy way to move some of your colder weather there to mix with our hotter weather here. It has been over 100 degrees F (37.7778 C) for the past week and looks like it will be hot for the next week also.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Sunday, June 21, 2015 - 05:25 am:

Hap. You are right, as usual. There are only four bolts to Bill's wheel. In the lying down photo My eyes led me to believe there were 5, but your spoke count rules that out. So we are left with standard Kelsey loose lug wheels. I might add that they are of US manufacture, as they do not show the alternating taper front to back at the base of the spokes like Canadian ones do.

Allan from down under.


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