Questions on mag starting the 16

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Questions on mag starting the 16
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul iverson freeport ill. on Monday, June 22, 2015 - 03:39 pm:

I just fixed a loose connection on timer wire original guy that soldered it missed the wire! But I did find the nut on timer rod from steering coulum loose only thing holding it was cotter pin now no play in advance. Before I could start car on mag fully advanced not now. I read on old thread about advancing when starting on mag. How far? I tried and got a back fire don't want a broken arm! But now I get more free starts! I have already used 2 gallons of gas just playing with starting this car! It really runs good!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, June 22, 2015 - 03:49 pm:

The owner's manual says (1921):

"On cars not equipped with a starter, the spark lever should usually be put in about the third or fourth notch on the quadrant (the notched half-circle on which the levers operate). The throttle should usually be placed in about the fifth or sixth notch. A little experience will soon teach you where these levers should be placed for proper starting. Care should be taken not to advance the spark lever too far, as the engine may "back kick."
  On cars equipped with starter, the spark lever should be fully retarded (all the way up)."

Quick summary - assuming that the timing rod length is correctly adjusted, the spark lever should be fully up for starting on battery, and pulled down to the third or fourth notch from the top for starting on magneto. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul iverson freeport ill. on Monday, June 22, 2015 - 05:12 pm:

thanks Mark I tried 4 notches still cant start on mag I guess I just have to try a few more notches! I get free starts more than not! 6 in a row! I also learned to move spark lever slowley 1st or second notch on batt. it starts or backfires! it runs better on mag.it starts easy on


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Monday, June 22, 2015 - 06:11 pm:

Paul make sure the timing is right to begin with. I adjust the timer rod so the plug fires at 15 degrees past top dead center with the spark lever fully in the up position. That works for battery starting and also seems to correspond to the setting for starting on mag which for me is 4 notches down on the spark lever. I still get free starts and have never had a kick back on any of my cars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Carter - South Jersey on Monday, June 22, 2015 - 06:26 pm:

Paul, if your timing is set according to the spec it will fire a little later than ideal for starting on mag when the lever is all the way up. Pulling it down 3-4 notches may be correct when everything is in perfect shape, but if there is slop in the linkage it will be different. If after starting the car with the lever all the way at the top you slowly pull it down, you can find the first spot where the engine picks up speed which might be more than 3-4 notches down. Be careful that you don't try starting it too far advanced.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Carter - South Jersey on Monday, June 22, 2015 - 06:29 pm:

Just to be clearer... I am referring to running on mag (not battery) when pulling the lever down to find where the next position is found.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul iverson freeport ill. on Monday, June 22, 2015 - 07:00 pm:

I can get it to start on mag by pulling lever down 7 notches. Val how do you find 15 degrees? I can find t.d.c. I am sure. John there is no play in linkage. the other thing that changed is now I get a free start or backfire almost every time on batt. I guess I can bend rod a little bit to match the way it was with play but I sure like the free starts! I didnt get them before it only backfires on moving spark lever on batt. with eng. not running but I dont want to blow out muffler


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Monday, June 22, 2015 - 08:16 pm:

I used to use a protractor and the ratchet pin but now I use that gadget that TW industries sells and it works great. Easy to use and it seems to be very accurate. When I first got it I used it on all my cars and was surprised to find that they were pretty much correct except for one that was way off. That one was much more retarded than I though which explained why I often had trouble with it stalling before I could get around to advance the spark.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Tuesday, June 23, 2015 - 12:18 am:

I didn't think a T could kick when starting it on mag, only when assisted by a battery?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Tuesday, June 23, 2015 - 02:19 am:

Paul,
You can easily check/set the timing near 15 ATDC by looking at then crankshaft pin. It should be at the 9:30 - 3:30 position when it starts buzzing on battery power.
Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Weeds on Tuesday, June 23, 2015 - 03:58 am:

Is Larry correct in saying a T won't kick when cranking on Mag?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, June 23, 2015 - 04:14 am:

I have a high tension magneto that has the kill switch integrated with the timing lever, grounding the magneto when fully retarded, so to start it I must advance the lever some. I've tried advancing a little more but it doesn't kick back at all as a battery ignition can. Likely because you have to have some speed when cranking to get a spark, thus there's momentum in the moving parts getting it past TDC even if the combustion starts a bit early. Kickbacks would then be from slow cranking with battery ignition?

I don't think a magneto ignition makes it fully safe from kickbacks - just a little more resistant, so of course I never advance fully and I always hand crank with my left hand when the ignition is on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul iverson freeport ill. on Tuesday, June 23, 2015 - 10:42 am:

thanks guys I never thought about less kick with mag. if I move spark lever 10 notches it starts o.k. on mag. I went to 12 notches and it did pull crank out of my hand. maybe if I was not pulling up left handed it would have been a bad day! I dont think I will try that again!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Tuesday, June 23, 2015 - 11:01 am:

10 notches sounds like a lot Paul - even on Mag.

Take a look at this, and perhaps consider doing it.......

http://www.spokanemodeltclub.com/resources/How%20to%20Time%20a%20Model%20T.pdf


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Carter - South Jersey on Monday, June 29, 2015 - 06:43 am:

It looks like some play in the linkage was found due to a loose swivel which would help explain the number of notches the lever needed to be pulled down to start on mag:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/552036.html?1435531792


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Monday, June 29, 2015 - 08:34 am:

Thanks John - I was wondering about Paul's situation.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul iverson freeport ill. on Monday, June 29, 2015 - 09:07 am:

I am learning! after a lot of reading and thinking my timming is ok. I just was not understanding the T system on batt fully retarded never a kick. on mag if I advance it 9 notches its safe no kick. I was playing with the lever more than I should have.I am amazed at how simpil and yet complex these Ts are! thank you all for the help!


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