OT - Monday, getting the Model K closer to Lincoln. Stan Howe, or anyone, any experience with this carburetor?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: OT - Monday, getting the Model K closer to Lincoln. Stan Howe, or anyone, any experience with this carburetor?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Monday, June 22, 2015 - 10:51 pm:

Today I drove to eastern Iowa to spend a couple of days with Dean Yoder helping put the K together.

Dean building new coils. He takes KW "innards" and puts them in Heinze size boxes so we have a "modern" coil and points:



Dean pouring hot tar into the box:





Me doing grunt work. It's hard to find good help:



Sealing water jackets:



Dean's son Ben working on the manifolds:



It's starting to look like a car. Magneto and waterpump on, manifolds in place, and the timer together. There's a lot to do yet. We were able to turn it over for the first time since the rebuild (new pistons, rings, valves and rod babbitt), and it's a load to crank.......





This Marvel carb has a 1913 patent date, and may have been placed on the car by the original owners, who sold the K in 1914:






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Evan in Paso Robles on Tuesday, June 23, 2015 - 12:11 am:

Hey Rob, hope that your shoulder Doc doesn't look at the T Forum or you are going to have some splanin to do!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Tuesday, June 23, 2015 - 02:20 am:

Rob, I just did one of those for an early teens Mitchell -- being afraid of what the results would be. They are an air valve carb, designed for the poor fuel of the day and rely at least to some extent on hot air coming into them during operation. It ran well on my test engine but will not make power on the Mitchell. We are replacing it with a 20's Stromberg OE-2, which is what we did to the last Mitchell I built a carb for. My best guess is that it will run OK but not great, probably close to what the Schebler R did. By the way, I've gathered up a couple Holley K's but none in the bigger sizes that we need for the K. They are hard to find.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Tuesday, June 23, 2015 - 03:37 am:

Hi Rob.
I though that car would be running a big 5 ball kingston?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Partington on Tuesday, June 23, 2015 - 03:47 am:

Chitty Chitty Bang Bang rides again go for it Rob, for a handicapped old fella your doing well,looks the goods.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Tuesday, June 23, 2015 - 08:08 am:

Evan, we just won't tell him, will we? :-)

Stan, thank you. I have a Holley (same model used on Ford Model S, but much larger) that may be a good alternative. We will try to get going with the Marvel and go from there. Thank you again for your insight and expertise.

Bob, I've found three carbs used, Kingston, Holley and Buffalo. We still have a Buffalo, but it isn't an updraft, so we will need to to some fabricating to use it.

Doug, I hope we are able to go for a ride in the K at the OCF.

Thanks all,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Wednesday, June 24, 2015 - 06:47 am:

Hi Rob.
I can get you a nice 1'' 7/16 updraft SCHEBLER


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Wednesday, June 24, 2015 - 08:39 am:

Thank you Bob.
At this point I think we'll try to make an elbow and use our Buffalo. We used the Buffalo on the other K, and it worked well. I like the fact it was originally offered on 1907 Model K.

We also used a Schebler Model R on the other K and it didn't seem to have enough capacity at mid to higher speeds. Do you use a Schebler on your "K"?

Thanks again,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Wednesday, June 24, 2015 - 08:51 am:

Man this project is cool. Thanks for letting the rest of us in on it.

I hope you plan to post video of it starting and driving for the first time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Wednesday, June 24, 2015 - 01:59 pm:

Thanks Dan.

We had a visitor from the north country yesterday. Dean H. stopped by Dean's shop on his way to Lincoln for the speedster event. He came bearing gifts, beer and brats. Thanks Dave:



The K is starting to look like a real car:



And you thought keeping four coils adjusted was tough:



Radiator with fan brackets:



Plenty of wiring:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller - Thunder Bay, ON on Wednesday, June 24, 2015 - 02:52 pm:

I admit I'm not K savvy, why do I count six cylinders but seven coils and a mystery coil-sized box?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, June 24, 2015 - 03:30 pm:

Tim,
If you are referring to that brass box alongside the engine, that is a remote oiler. It sends predetermined (by the operator) amounts of oil to various locations on the car (mostly the engine, and that's what those copper lines are you see along the crankcase.
VERY COOL car--even without the radiator on! (bad pun intended)
David
PS RR used truss rods up to the 1930s.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Wednesday, June 24, 2015 - 05:06 pm:

Tim,
I believe you're referring to the pic showing the coilbox. The six coils on the left are for the commutator ignition system, like Ford Models NRS, or a T on battery.

The coil on the right is for the Holley-Huff magneto system, the first capacitive discharge ignition (CDI) system used on a production auto. The second box from the right contains the condenser, also for the Holley-Huff system. There are two separate ignition systems (twelve plugs and wires), with a total of four ignition options. The choices are battery one and two (left) and battery/distributor or magneto/CDI on the right.

David, you're correct about the adjustable oil lines. Like the RR Silver Ghost, and a few other makes, the 1907/08 Model K used adjustable oil lines to the thrust side of each cylinder wall (Rolls added this feature to the Silver Ghost in about 1910, I believe). The other two lines lead to the front of the crankcase to oil the cam gear and to the tailhead.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Verne Shirk on Wednesday, June 24, 2015 - 08:33 pm:

Rob,
I'm no carb expert but my 1915-16 Oakland has a Marvel carb. Apparently they were each built for a specific model of car. I have tried to find a spare but did not find one that matched exactly. I went through mine and cleaned it up but have not tried it yet. The linkage was binding up on mine. I think more because it was assembled wrong.
Verne Shirk
Wichita, KS


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 12:06 am:

Verne,
Thanks for the info on Marvel carbs. I thought since this Model K was in the same family since new until 1964, the Marvel was chosen because it was a good carb. However, not knowing it's adjustments and idiosyncrasies has helped us decide to go with an original (to Model K) Buffalo carb.

Now it's beginning to look like a Model K:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rusty Berg - West Bloomfield, MI on Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 12:21 am:

Rob,

Just curious. Since the condenser (capacitor) plays such a critical role in the Holley-Huff CDI ignition system, was this rebuilt as well? I know the old paper/wax capacitors in the T coils are generally toast after many cycles of use, and I would assume (always dangerous) that this cap is of similar construction. Does the box hide a modern equivalent? Is it the same one as a T coil capacitor?

A very neat project, which your sharing is very much appreciated.

Thanks for reading,

Rusty Berg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Yoder, Iowa City IA. on Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 01:00 am:

Rusty,
this is the capacitor in the box I am holding in the first photo.c


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 02:03 am:

That car is so fantastic! Thank you for sharing the journey.
I don't know about using those "modern" components though? 90 year old ignition technology in a 107 year old car? (Of course, I am just funnin' ya) It all looks wonderful!
Drive soon! And enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 02:54 am:

Hey, Wayne, welcome back to life and the forum :-)
Now follow your heart doc's orders and rest, don't try to read up on all what you couldn't follow while you were at the hospital - if it's an interesting topic, it'll jump up to the top again like this one :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 06:09 am:

Hi Rob.
I CAN'T SEE IT TO CLEAR --BUT JUST CHECK THAT YOU HAVE NOT GOT THE FLYWHEEL ON BACK THE FRONT?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 08:00 am:

This one looks to be the same as Rob's, pulling air from the front over the transmission, right?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 08:59 am:

Frank,
Yes, it looks correct (engine turning clockwise, from the front). In fact, that looks like Bob Trevan's K engine number 2. Notice there are only two oil sights, instead of the eight seen on our Roadster. In October 1906 Ford came out with the 1907 K adding frame strength, higher compression, larger capacity radiator, longer wheelbase and oil lines to each cylinder wall along with other changes. The Roadster was introduced in late January, 1907.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller - Thunder Bay, ON on Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 10:38 am:

Rob, thanks for explaining the many different ways to fire the plugs on your K. With options and redundancy like that it's a wonder Ford wasn't building airplanes sooner...

Bob and Frank, a fan is little more than a screw. Flipping a fan won't make it blow the wrong way, just like turning a nut over won't reverse its threads.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 05:10 pm:

Hi Rob.
What you say is correct . But i thought there was some airfoil shape in the blade.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 09:27 pm:

Rob got my name wrong. He called me Dean, but that is OK. Had a lot of fun helping the crew with the wiring.

Spent some time with Rob at a bar tonite. He is crazy enough that you would think he was from Wisconsin.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen- Central Minnesota on Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 10:04 pm:

Dave,
Judging by your shirt, I'd bet that you brought a little ribbing along with the beer and brats. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 10:22 pm:

Rob was even seen riding around Lincoln in the Buckymobile. Do you think he is now a loyal badger fan?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ned Protexter on Friday, June 26, 2015 - 11:58 am:

A Badger and Husker go work on a car in Hawkeye country......Sounds like the beginning of a bad joke.

Unfortunately, probably not as bad of a joke as our football team is going to be this year.....Go Hawks?


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