Kevlar fuzz: A normal part of break-in?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Kevlar fuzz: A normal part of break-in?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 11:37 am:


The title states the question. This morning I took the cover off the hogshead to take up some slack in the reverse pedal. While I was at it, of course, I cleaned the oil screen. I believe this was the third cleaning since the rebuild. With no speedometer I don't know the mileage, but I'm sure it's well under 500. With each cleaning I'm finding much less metal on the magnet, and less fuzz too, but there's still this much fuzz. Is this par for the course? When the transmission was apart I didn't notice any rough spots on the drums, but I may enlist a helper to turn them while I have a look.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 12:04 pm:

I wish I knew for sure what type of bands the previous owner installed in my 1924 cut-off touring. The 2007 receipt from Mac's says they are part number T3416B (lining set with rivets). When I type that part number into Mac's website today, it shows the typical yellow Kevlar bands:

http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_model_t/model-t-ford-transmission-band-lining- set-kevlar.html

My bands are white, not the yellowish color that I see in most pics of Kevlar bands.

I learned to drive a T on this car, and I have around 2000 miles on it so far, and have yet to see any lint on my transmission door screen or any fraying or distress on my bands. The magnet sometimes has a little metal fuzz on it, but even that is so little and so fine it is more like a few spots of oily black powder.

To be fair, the only band that gets a workout on my car is the low band, because I only use reverse once a drive (to start backing out of my driveway), and I have AC brakes on the car, which take most if not all of the braking loads. According to the receipts, my transmission received a brand new brake drum with lug shoes as part of its rebuild.

Other's experiences may differ. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 12:07 pm:

Many times that is about right. What will shred the linings are sharp edges of the drums due to wear of the drums. The bands will shift normally over the drums plus the drum bushings allow the drums to shift one to another.

The sharp edges then shred the linings.

Have had that minimal shredding on used drums. Now running Kevlar on new repro drums and have noticed very slight and reduced shredding in over 1500 miles checking each 500 mi oil changes


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 01:44 pm:

Steve - My experience has been similar to Dan's. I have noticed that the edge of my Kevlar brake band is being worn by the edge between the brake drum and the driving plate which are not exactly even with each other.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chester Leighton on Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 06:02 pm:

I've got 4500 miles on my Kevlar bands and I didn't get any fuzz off them, even when first installed. I'd check my drums for cracks or a chipped edge on the reverse drum. I left a little more sticking out past the end of the metal of the band than the instructions said to when I trimmed mine, just to make sure they didn't curl under. I don't remember if I singed the cut ends to keep them from unraveling or not but it may be worth considering.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Peterson College Place, WA on Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 07:27 pm:

I put Kevlar bands on my 15 nine years ago and have put over 20,000 miles on it. I have never had any "fuzz" in my screen. I would recommend inspecting those bands closely to see what is shaving the bands.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Friday, June 26, 2015 - 12:19 am:

No, that much fuzz isn't par for the course. Ordinarily, there should be no fuzz, especially from Kevlar bands, but it depends on the condition of the 3 drums. A nice smooth drum will not have much, if any fuzz, while drums with a crack or a rough or sharp area due to a past encounter with steel rivets, or other objects getting under the bands and damaging the smooth surface, will scrape the band linings providing a continuous supply of fuzz until the bands are worn deep enough in the vicinity of the rough area that it no longer makes contact with the band, or until the rough area has been worn smooth. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Friday, June 26, 2015 - 05:45 am:

I take an opposite view from Jim. That may in fact be "OK" depending on the brand of band. My dad had his engine/transmission rebuilt by a well known builder, with a good reputation. The car was "broken in" on the Black Hills national tour 4-5 years ago. I drove the car easy, and cleaned the filter at noon and in the evening. Changed the oil every night. Found exactly what you found at the first few cleanouts. Really bothered me and was not typical of what I am used to seeing...BUT...these bands were "fuzzy" kevlar and not the harder "yellow" stuff I'm used to seeing. Anyway, dad's bands eventually settled in and stopped shedding. The enclosed picture is of the first "clean-out" that had me freaked out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Friday, June 26, 2015 - 05:48 am:

and one caveat...the bands in question were definitely "fuzzy" as new...my experience with "yellow" kevlar (for lack of a better term) is that they shed very little...which type did you install?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Friday, June 26, 2015 - 06:38 am:

There are two (at least) brands of Kevlar bands. One is soft and doesn't last long. The other is hard as a rock and works great.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Friday, June 26, 2015 - 08:39 am:

My clean out has looked like Scott's. I have probably 2000 miles on my bands.

I will take a picture of where I think it's rubbing next time I have it open.

Still haven't got it out of winter storage.....sad.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Friday, June 26, 2015 - 09:07 am:

I bought a single yellow and firm kevlar band for the brake only. (Wood for low and cotton for reverse works fine :-) )
No fuzz at all after 500+ miles, even though it's an old narrow brake drum with the split to the driving plate in the area where the band operates.

I bought the band from:
Rocky Mountain Machine Co
3521 E St Vrain, Colorado Springs, CO 80909
(719) 591-7915


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Friday, June 26, 2015 - 10:23 am:

I must have the hard style Kevlar bands that Royce talked about. I had some fuzzy at first...but nothing like what you have shown. The big risk of "fuzzy" is plugging up oil holes including the internal front oil line. For the effort involved, would not hurt to drop the pan inspection cover and see what the dippers look like. No easy way of blowing out the internal oil line. If you have a post oiler, check to see if that is still open.
Have been running a 1/2" outside oil line for 15 yrs. and no bearing problems/adjustments yet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, June 26, 2015 - 11:07 am:

Hope it's not too tight! This is what happened to one of mine because the band was too tight. Note, the pedal was only 1 inch above the floorboard, but the band was too tight because the shaft, cam, and notch were not fitted correctly.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By brass car guy on Saturday, June 27, 2015 - 12:31 am:

It seems that there are a number of different suppliers of Kevlar linning. My brother installed Kevlar in is fresh '15 and in a few blocks filled the entire transmission and crankcase with stringy fiber. He even filled the funnel for the interior oil line. He had to remove the motor and clean the crankcase and transmission.

I installed Kevlar linning with the yellow ends. I have put some 800 miles on my motor and just checked the other day and had virtually no fuzz. I have a transmission filter and there was no collection of fuzz there either.

I was told by my T parts supplier that the yellow bands are treated on the end similar to burning the end of poly rope. That is where the fuzz comes from.

just sayin'

brasscarguy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Monday, October 12, 2015 - 09:14 pm:

I am reviving this thread since I had my inspection cover open over the weekend. Below is a picture of what I found. The brake drum is not cracked. But as you can see, the Kevlar band is fraying at the edge where it meets the driving plate.

After I cleaned out the oil screen, I had a marble sized ball of lint like Steve at the start of this thread.

Questions:

1. There seems to be a slight lip between the drum and the driving plate. Is this normal? I am trying to figure out whether this condition is being caused due to band construction/material defects, drum wear, or something else.
2. If it is caused by wear, would a wooden band be more forgiving?
3. Has anyone else experienced this and did it eventually stop fraying?

Obviously I am concerned about the material getting into the oil funnel, but I would like to explore all options before removing the engine.

Thanks.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 01:55 pm:

I have some of the 'yellow ' Kevlars in my 24 Coupe. So far so good.

If the yellow Kevlars don't fuzz as easily I wonder if its because they are woven differently or made from a 'harder' material.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 02:39 pm:

I think the fuzz should be saved and pressed into a mold to make rear axle bearing seals. Recycle Recycle Recycle. That's what Henry would have done.

Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 03:33 pm:

My kevlars came from Rocky Mountain Machine. They have been excellent. I buy from them directly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Moorehead on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 08:36 pm:

Could the edge shredding be coming from the safety wire dragging the Kevlar every time it turns? Maybe a little tale sticking up causing it to fray. I had that happen once.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 12:19 pm:

I used the yellow Kevlar linings purchased from Chaffins. No fuzz to speak of and I do not see any frayed ends when I open the inspection cover. It might be a good Idea to call Dave @ Chaffins to see what "flavor" Kevlar they recommend/sell.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 12:24 pm:

Dan, your fuzz is likely coming from a sharp edge in the brake drum or the driving plate - they're split right under the lining. Maybe they don't match exactly and maybe the drum was turned without the edge being chamfered a few 1/100"?


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