I am trying to figure out the value of a 1919 Model T Touring. It has a fresh engine and transmission, new top and good upholstery. Restored 7 years ago. Same owner for 58 years. Any ideas on the value?
That has to be among the worst top installations I have ever seen. That is just awful.
The upholstery may be new, but that is a terrible installation.
Driver's side fender has been hit. Looks like no body work was done to correct it prior to painting.
The obvious lack of attention to detail for the above mentioned items may be a red flag for other things on the car. I wouldn't put much stock in the owner saying the engine and transmission are fresh. Who knows if that was done right?
Based on your description and the photos, my guess would seven to ten grand. Why such a spread? Because prices vary widely, depending on location, who's buying, features or conditions not shown, etc.
"Conditions not shown" would include what's lurking under the hood, what's inside the rear axle, does it contain a lot of wrong parts, etc., in addition to the things Erik mentioned. If this is a car you're thinking of buying, you want an experienced T person to help you check it out. If more is amiss than the top, the upholstery, and the fender, then my estimate is too high.
>> That has to be among the worst top installations I have ever seen. That is just awful.
>>The upholstery may be new, but that is a terrible installation.
Shucks, I made a comment a while back about a 1913 being painted candy-apple red and was taken out to the woodshed by you guys and beaten black and blue.
I don't feel so bad now.
Yeah, if someone want to sell a car and the car has obviously negative points to it, I think you are doing the seller a favor by pointing out why their car isn't worth the big bucks they think it is. The 1913 is still for sale, by the way.
The original poster says in the thread title that it's his car. It looks to me like the top could be pulled forward by shortening the front top straps. That should make it look and fit much better.
Look at the rear, Mike. Looks like it was pulled down and tacked, not even trimmed!
There are a couple of red flags just from the pictures looks like a "pig-in-a-poke"
note how splash shield is not connected to rear fender
this seems to be a lot of oil in the kitty liter
Good to see someone brave an honest description!
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The guy who fixed it up probably thought he was doing the best that he could.
For the perfectionist its not the best. If he took it to a show the self appointed experts would rag on it for sure.
If the top was straightened out it would give it a better look overall to the car (from the pics anyway).
There have been other T's posted before that didn't look any better and maybe worse.
I would check out the engine and the drive train close and drive it. I have a feeling its still got the original radiator. The neck hasn't been replated.
I would say its an 8000.00 car at the most.
And that's an honest evaluation of the thread and the car.
Hold on guys, He just asked how to find the value. Is it fair to totally diss a car? Maybe he was unable to do a better installation of the top or maybe he bought it that way. As stated it was owned by the same owner for 50+ years maybe you should take that into consideration. Perhaps he is a relative selling the car for an elderly relative and only passing on what he was told. I have no issue with constructive thoughts regarding the condition , originality or resale value of a car shown here, but in my opinion some of the comments were just plain rude, and beyond constructive.
It's easy for you so called self styled experts with no investment other than a cheap keyboard and the ability dump on someone's pride and joy.
Steve was on point and informative to both the seller and a potential buyer. Some of you others were a little off point.
Why is it always the same guys here to rain on someone's parade? There is nothing wrong with fair and constructive critique, but some of you go overboard is not what we are all about. This forum is to help and nurture present and future owners of our model t's.
Let me digress to my purchase of a barn fresh 1912 touring that had been listed on ebay. From photos there were chatters here that totally panned the car never having put a hand on the car but were again "self styed" experts describing how rotten the wood was and totally misleading the listing was.
Even to the point of suggesting the seller was intentionally misleading and was in fact dishonest. I have know the seller for nearly 20 years and let me tell you I would trust him with anything I own.
Sorry to be so wordy but damn it lighten up, at some point you "experts" or your heirs will be looking for advice to sell your "pride and joy", and I hope those responding will be kinder and more gentle in their thoughts and comments.
I appreciate your comments. My dad owned this car since he was 19 and he recently passed away. The car was missing a top for 50 years and he recently added it. He enjoyed tinkering with the car and drove it to local car shows.
I do not share the interest in old cars and am not aware of the cars value or characteristics that determine the value which is why I've asked this forum for help.
Hey brasscarguy, is there a difference between someone ragging on a car and you ragging on the guy making the comment? I for one, appreciate an honest reaction. And as for the comment its always the same guys making disparaging remarks, I seem to recall you having made your share.
I apologize for stating the obvious.
Three common maladies that I see on antique cars:
- Poorly installed upholstery
- Poorly installed tops
- Poorly executed pinstriping (typically too wide)
Corey, sorry for the loss of your father. I'm sure this isn't a pleasant task for you. Please don't take offense to some comments made here. For the most part they do mean well. There are many different ways to enjoy this hobby, and if your fathers car isn't completely "correct" that doesn't make him wrong. As long as he enjoyed his car, that is what it is all about.
I'm stayin' outa this one!!
Corey - Thanks for stopping by the forum. Even if it's just to find out the value of your car (threads like this are very common here), is is always good to see Model T's here in the present. Yes, many were made, but many were also scrapped, rusted away, etc. Good on your Dad for preserving one.
I won't repeat some of the flaws that others have already mentioned. All of these things are fixable. It's just a matter of asking the right price taking these things into consideration.
In perfect, award winning condition, I would say that your year and model car would command around $20k. Earlier Model T's with brass radiators would bring slightly more.
Your car appears to be a driver. It is perfect for someone looking to get into the Model T hobby, or antique car hobby in general. I would advertise it as such and not let someone beat you up over the imperfections.
I would ask anywhere from $7-9k for your car, depending on your appetite for doing the negotiation dance. I wouldn't take any less than $6k, especially if it has a clear title.
Good luck and I hope you find a good home for it.
Corey ditto on the loss of your father.
Fresh engine can mean a lot of things from full rebuild to a ring and valve grind job. Same with other drive line components.
While some people buy on the just the outside appearance and that the car does run, others want to know the actual running gear condition as it can start to run into the thousands of dollars to repair over the buying cost. If you can find any receipts for parts or repair that would be a help in determining value.
Black era T's are not a high value item as there are are many of them and the number of people buying them is getting smaller. If everything is correct, being a 1919 may have a little advantage over say a 1920 up because of it's cross over between nonstarter and starter models.
While people on line can help and give a ball park figure on value, it's not the same as knowing your local market, what similar cars are being "SOLD" for on ebay and seeing the car in person. We can's see how the body, running gear etc really looks from photographs.
You might think about finding someone that can finish the top and maybe redo some of the upholstery along with finding a paper trail on the parts and repairs.
Another point, make sure BEFORE you try to sell it that the title is in order and transferable and if it does not have one, get it. There is nothing worse then the buyer spending hours trying to get that straitened out.
As you can tell from the responses, value is a difficult thing to establish, especially just from photographs. Value depends on Location, just like in real estate, some areas are much cheaper than others.
Your Dad owned the car for his pleasure, and obviously cared much for it. The level of care we give our "children" (trust me, our Model Ts are our children--if not our masters!) varies from person to person. What is "good enough" for one is "total wrong" for another. When selling a car the "gold standard" is a car that has been completely taken apart, every piece gone over and brought back to "as new" or even better (depending on one's opinion of the original piece or design), reassembled and looks better than if you time-traveled a car fresh off the assembly line to today and parked it alongside. That's the gold standard, deviations from it reduce the sales price.
Unless you have receipts showing mechanical work done on the car, it's hard to know just what your father did to the mechanicals. One man's "rebuilt engine" is a valve job and bearing shim adjustment;, the other man's is a complete tear-down, new crankshaft, transmission drums, etc. Either engine will run, and both may be reliable--to a point, but eventually the first engine will need work sooner than the second one.
Looking at the photos, your Dad was proud of his car and kept it shiny, but I can see obvious signs of small dents and other details that would not be visible in a "gold standard" car. The upholstery job, unfortunately is not done to "professional standards" and it's hard to fix it because of all the holes in the material from the fastening nails. The seats may be able to be reworked, the top, not likely--but I'm just looking at photos, someone with experience might look it over and figure out how to do the repairs without resorting to new top material. I'm not trying to demean your Dad's work; installing a top is tricky, as there are many variables involved, and one should probably have an experienced helper along for the first-time effort. It looks like he wasn't quite finished with the installation too.
I suspect your best way to get a value is to ask this forum for some T folks near you to "look it over" and see what they say. Also, you can always come down on the price, but it's difficult to go up!
Best wishes for you.
Another point to add. If you do sell the car as is, do not rely on photographs taken inside, take it outside and shoot as many as needed. While most sites only allow a X number of photos in the add, posting all the photos on a free account like photobucket made open to the public and a link to it in the add would be helpful to potential buyers.
I appreciate the assistance and suggestions. Thank you.
Corey, I am always looking for a car that might need a bit of work. For me, that is a big part of the fun of the hobby. Your dad's car would make a great buy for someone who wants to start with a solid car that can be spruced up. If I had the room and didn't already have 7 Model T's I would be very interested. I would think that $7,500 would be a good buy for someone and would result in a quick sale if that is what you are interested in. I think you might be able to get more if you want to hold out for a bit but, as they say, "time is money".
More and more in recent years, I seem to be offering my worthless opinion on the "value" or "worth" of antique cars. While I am quite capable of picking other people's cars apart along with the best (or worst) of them, I don't like doing it. It has been mentioned above that Corey H's Dad enjoyed that car for many years. That is what he should remember most. A lot of us, many of us for most our lives, many more as they reach the upper ages, cannot for a variety of reasons do the quality of workmanship that we would like to. That is something that Corey H also needs to realize. The car is NOT the shining treasure we would like it to be because of that.
Because I have not had the opportunity to see the car up close and personally, and likewise not been able to sit in the seats for a bit, I can't really say for certain. But I think I would be glad to have a touring with upholstery installed that badly. It really does not look that bad. The top is another matter. The unknowns of the mechanics also must be taken into account. I see bad old restorations that have lost the right to be preservation candidates and total rust piles sell for three to six thousand dollars. This car is much better than those.
That front fender could probably be tweaked a little bit and improve the overall look of the car a lot. Just lowering the top would improve the look of the car a LOT! The top MAY be salvageable, or not. But new replacement tops are not that expensive (says the guy that cannot afford one).
I think Val S is right on the money. I think someone could pick that up, drive it and enjoy it a little bit. Tinker and improve it some. Plan on going through the entire drive train to either freshen it up or properly rebuild it before serious heavy touring (thrust washers first for safety reasons!). You would put a whole lot more into one of those "bad old restorations that have lost the right to be preservation candidates and total rust piles (that) sell for three to six thousand dollars" than you likely would this.
Just my opinion.
My sympathies on the loss of your Dad. And good luck!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
I see you are in Galesburg, IL ?
Sorry about your Dad passing.
Perhaps there is an MTFCA member here who does not have a vested interest in purchase that would be able to help Corey out ?
Reading about the "dings" on the car pointed out by the guys I'm up in the air on this. By the way no problem with telling about them here. I'd find out any way myself. A lot of the stuff that's wrong is repairable. Looks like a good quality seat kit. The rear looks like hell from what I can make out. Come prepaired to take a comp test & pull the trans cover for sure. No starter on a black T? Not a plus here. Could be leaking badly. Or they haven't cleaned up in a while. $5500 to maybe 6 and a bit depending on a real good look. I've done a lot better for a bit more $.
Get the top fixed. It will add much to the appearance of the car and will help it sell. The top installation makes one want to question the quality of things that can not be seen and skeptical of any work done on the car. With a nice looking top I would suggest you start at 9,000 and see if you get any nibbles . You can always come down .