I mentioned in a previous post that several parts are missing on my 1917 Touring car.
I am trying to understand what the proper mounting of the brackets should look like.
The wooden firewall has 2 vertical bolt holes near the outside, bottom corners. Do the brackets just bolt to the wood using a bolt and nut? I see that there is nothing on the other side of the firewall (inside the passenger compartment)for the bolts to go through...just the firewall. Is this correct or should something be behind the firewall?
Thanks once again for the expert help.
Ken -- The firewall mounts to the brackets using 5/16" carriage bolts. The bolt heads go on the wood side. Nothing else attaches there.
Glad that you have your Father-in-laws 1917 touring. Welcome to the forum and to Model Ts. A couple of words of caution. Many Model T Parts look very similar, will bolt onto the same general area, will fit more than one way, in some cases work ok either way while in other cases do not function properly either way.
For example the ring gear will fit fine on either side of the rear axle. But you have two speeds forward when installed properly and two speeds in reverse when installed on the side away from the drivers seat.
The firewall bracket for 1917-1923 look very very similar to the 1924-1926. But they are different. Be sure to use the 1917-1923 ones for a proper fit etc. And also any of them will fit Ė i.e. the holes line up with the frame on either side of the frame -- but only correctly one way. And note that the 1926-27 use the 1924-25 but have them swapped side to side. Also note the Ford Price List of Parts make the change in 1922 but Iím 90% sure the change occurred when the high cowl 1924 models were introduced in 1923. But I would need to check on that one to make sure. However you need the 1917-1922 style (which may or may not continue into the low cowl 1923 cars).
And as mentioned before on other threads the 1917 Rip Van Winkle Ford was covered in Burceís (RIP) book. That would be an excellent reference for you since your car is also a 1917.
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Do you have the brackets? There are two styles, both almost the same. One has square holes, and the other has round holes.
Do you know which came first round or square holes and approximately when the 2nd style was introduced and the first style discontinued?
I know -- who would want to know that level of detail? That would be me. But I am hoping to compile it along with references to make it available in the future.
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Mike, Hap, and Larry. Thanks so much for the helpful posts. I am slowly learning my way around this 1917 but....it's a slow process, especially since my FIL wasn't big into stock correctness! If it ran...all was good for him.
No, I do not have the brackets, just empty holes where some would have been located. I am also still trying to figure out the 'leaning' chassis thing. I am beginning to wonder if the front leaf-spring just might be off center a tad bit. I need to figure out how to properly get into the front crossmember and see if that center bolt is still located in the center hole.
Sumter SC? My Daughter and her husband is stationed there at Shaw. Our son is up at Seymour-Johnson.
Guys, thanks again.
Well, I am looking back here, slowly catching up. Something I haven't noticed said here, is just how many variations of firewall brackets there were. Unfortunately, I don't really know the answer myself, and don't have handy enough pieces I can measure in order to divine an answer.
Not relating to your 1917 are at least three versions of brass era brackets. These all mounted onto the top of the frame rail. Your 1917 should use the first version of model T firewall bracket that mounted on the outside of each frame rail to two holes (horizontally placed) just slightly ahead of the pan arm mounting holes. Mounting on the outside of the frame rail instead of on top of it made engine removal and servicing easier and cheaper for all the Ts that followed the brass era.
There are also at least three versions of firewall brackets used between 1917 and 1927, with a right and a left of each. They all look kinda similar. 1917 through most of 1922, Ford used a wood firewall which was about 5/8 inch thick. Late in 1922 model year (mid calendar year), Ford switched to a stamped steel firewall, which had almost no real thickness. Because the body location that the firewall mounted to had NOT changed, the bracket (mounting onto the front of the firewall) had to compensate for that 5/8 inch by being reshaped slightly. Ford did not move the holes in the frame, they just moved the vertical mounting line back relative to the frame/side holes on the bracket.
The improved cars model years 1926 and '27 also used a similar looking bracket, however, it mounted flare out instead of flare in. I have very little '26/'27 stuff, so I doubt I can find a bracket to compare with. I don't know if the forward/back position changed at that time or not. I also do not know offhand when or where square holes were used versus round holes.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
The ones with the square holes are for '26-7.
Thank you Mike W! I thought that, but really do not know. I have had so little '26/'27 stuff over the years.
Your car most likely has the square holes. Am I right Royce? The steel firewall cars have round holes because the carriage bolts start from inside the car. The '26-7s are the reverse of the 1925s, and have a notch for about 3" between the bolt holes.