OT, my new toy, O&S steam donkey winch

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: OT, my new toy, O&S steam donkey winch
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 08:16 am:

Most everyone knows of the Estate I have been helping to sell. It had lots of model T parts, but there was very little T stuff that I needed. I did get me a new toy to play with. It is a late 1800s to about 1915 era O&S steam hoisting winch. They were also called "donkey winches" as they were used in the logging woods, or mining operations to skid logs or move ore. This one is about 6 foot tall and weighs a little over a ton. It is a 7 horsepower engine. Since I am a retired Boilermaker and also was a heavy rigger, I have always wanted something steam to play with. The winch is similar to the air/pneumatic powered tugger/winches we used in our rigging and hoisting. Other than the different power of air instead of steam, the tugger/winches today have changed very little. My wife says I have a old junk problem. I wonder what she is talking about, as I see no "Junk" anywhere .... :-) :-)

winch


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Andreasen on Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 08:26 am:

Interesting that they added a small flywheel to the engine shaft. You'd think that big gear would have been enough.

You need to anchor it inside your shop in order to "tow" new model T finds inside, using compressed air. That ought to justify it to the wife.

Nice find!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 09:03 am:

A couple of 6' x 70' logs and a vertical boiler and you should be
good to go ! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 12:32 pm:

Yeah, did you get the boiler with it? George, that flywheel was probably added to get the engine "over center" in case it was stopped at either end of the stroke.
Very nice vertical Bottle-frame engine. If you do run it on air, be sure and spray some lube oil into it, steam is somewhat self-lubricating (especially saturated steam, but you probably know that based on your background).
I'm jealous!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul iverson freeport ill. on Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 02:01 pm:

nice! I would like to see a side view


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 04:39 pm:

How is this for a side view :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 04:56 pm:

I don't see any junk either. Besides, your place looks a lot cleaner and neater (and less full) than mine does!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 05:46 pm:

Paul, here are a few more pics. The engine and winch are in pretty good shape and appears to had very little use. But it has the normal broken item or two from "mis-use" It is missing the piston connecting rod. Ill be able to build it fairly easily. I just have to calculate how long it should be. I have been posting on smokestack about this engine and someone has a engine like this one and is going to send the measurements to me. Ill almost guarantee that the connecting rod is at the estate, but I have been unable to locate it. George, I feel like the flywheel is there to help keep a steady rpm. If this thing is "holding a load" it will require a good bit of power to get it smoothly moving again. Things like this machine, always remind me the "good old days" were not so good. Imagine using this winch, sitting on a couple log skids, with the boiler sitting on the same skids with you and it, and then dragging logs out of the woods with it, usually in the mountains. Then tying the winch to a stump to pull or skid, the whole winch assembly thru the woods to the next location. The winch has no reverse, just a neutral. So the cable setter had to manually "unspool" the cable between each log pull. And to think, that this winch was a "great improvement to what came before it ... Nope, does not sound like "good old days" to me ....

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Here a couple pages from a 1913 O@S catalog

cat1

cat2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 05:55 pm:

In the pictures, you will notice that model T hubcaps are the perfect size to cover the large bearing oiler cups. They are open to the air and have no caps or lids on them. The oil cups are meant to have a thin felt pad to keep out the dirt and then oil regullary from the big oil can with a very long spout, that you are supposed to have. I guess this may not be Off Topic after all ... :-) Just another use of model T parts ....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 06:00 pm:

The oil cup with the model T hubcap removed

cup


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 07:01 pm:

Are those t or TT hub caps?
here is what you need to get it going;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/STANLEY-STEAMER-ENGINE-Upright-Boiler-on-Model-T-Frame-/ 161754997419?hash=item25a95962ab&vxp=mtr
:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 07:15 pm:

Hmm, you are also missing the valve timing reach road and the reversing lever/cam. Maybe the catalog shows it better. Usually a reversing engine has two valve reach rods riding on two different cams, but not always, depending on the valve motion.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 08:05 pm:

David, I knew the reach rod was missing but forgot to mention it. It is also going to be easy to fabricate. How would the reversing lever cam work and where would it probably be on this engine. I am a total newbie to steam engines, I built boilers (Boilermaker) and argued with boiler operators. :-) So this is somewhat new territory for me ... These are the only pics I have so far from a catalog. Someone on "Smokstak" sent them to me ...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 08:54 pm:

Mark, yes I would love to have that boiler in the you tube link. I figure at least 1/2 the price is for the Stanley engine. I would give a decent price for a upright boiler if someone has one or knows where one is. If I have to build one, mine will be welded construction and no rivets or old look to it . I like the old look of a riveted boiler ...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 09:35 pm:

Hi Donnie,
Well, from the pictures, I would say it was on that moving block on the valve piston rod. Can't say as to how it worked, you can see a little handle on it in the catalog illustration.
I would think a winch engine would be reversible?
Argued with boiler operators eh?? not blowing down often enough or not pre-treating the water? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 10:00 pm:

David, I have asked the other owners on Smokstak if there engines are reversible ... They are not as fast to respond as most of us here on the T forum are... The problem we had with the boiler operators is that they thought the boiler was "their boiler" and we were not fixing "their boiler" the way "they wanted it fixed" Most of the boilers I fixed were huge. The smallest boiler I ever worked on was about the size of a train box car. Most were bigger, at least 6 or 7 stories tall. And the big coal fired power boilers had a floor about the size of a football field and were over 220 feet from the floor tubes to the roof tubes ... (I am not exaggerating on the size) The other problem with the boiler operators is "all they knew how to do was run their boiler" They probably could not even change a tire on their car. Most were very nice people. They just had a singular tunnel vision approach to their job...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, July 06, 2015 - 11:10 am:

Donnie,
Neat stuff, B&W installs, I assume? When I was the city Museum curator, part of my job was to assist the theatre manager, so someone could spell him if he fell ill. Well, the city administrator made life so painful for him (and me too, later) that he found a new job in Texas (where he still is) and it fell to me to "temporarily" run the theatre. Well, to this day the city has no idea how lucky they were, as the heating system was the 1928 steam heat system (OK, the boiler was from the 1950s)and, having been around steam all my life, no problem! The system was on it's last legs though, 2" pipes with rust out problems, etc., and we had it replaced with a grant. new system isn't as good in air circulation design, but it will heat/cool the "house" in 3 hours, and the old systems took 3 days (the air conditioning system had over 100lbs of freon in it. BTW, all this equipment is abandoned in place!
For your boiler, you could build a water-tube one, good vertical fire-tube jobs are kinda hard to find nowadays.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Monday, July 06, 2015 - 11:18 pm:

That is a neat rig for sure.

I spy a 61-66 Ford truck in the 4th pic down from the top,right above the tandem trailer. :-)
A friend of mine just took a new job as boiler inspector and seems to love his job. He was at a paper mill the other week and the boilers were 7 storys high!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Tuesday, July 07, 2015 - 01:09 pm:

Mack, it amazes me how close model T folks look at the pics .:-) It is a 1964 Ford 3/4 ton four wheel drive. It was used in the oil fields of Oklahoma. It has a four speed granny low trans with a two speed "Brownlite HI-LOW aux trans" and a two speed rear end. It also has a 25 ton PTO winch on the front. With everything in low, and set the throttle at a medium idle you can get out of the truck and walk around it as it creeps across the field. It is great to use when we used to haul hay or pick up rocks out of the fields. It is so slow you do not even have to hurry in the least bit. I heard back from the other O&S owners. My engine is not reversible. The winch is a "clutch type" and has a freewheeling design when the clutch is disengaged. It is "power up or in" and "freewheel/brake down or out". I found a steam governor at the estate that I was unsure went to the winch. Most agree that there is supposed to be a governor on my engine/winch. It will maintain a steady RPM so all that the operator needs to worry about is the clutch or brake. I sometimes miss the boiler work (then I get over it real quick :-)) ) I did a lot of work on the paper mill boilers. They are about the nastiest, dirtiest, stinking things in the world. The new coal fired power boilers are the amazing things. I have heard the newest ones (I have been retired 7 years) are over 300 feet from the floor of the firebox to the roof tubes. The have almost all went "super critical" They operate in the 2000 to 5000 PSI range. If you have a steam leak on a "super critical boiler, you can not see it. It may be 200 feet from the leak till the steam starts to vaporize and turn to visable steam. That kind of steam pressure will cut steel. I have seen the leak, cut thru the side of the boiler, thru brick, steel, lagging ect, still be invisible as it crosses the floor or hallways of the boiler house, go thru the outer wall of the building and vaporize a 100 foot out in the sky. If you were to walk into a stream of super heated steam since you can not see it, it will cut you in half before you even know it. I hated working on running super critical boilers... I sometimes wonder how I worked 30 years at the trade and Im still alive.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 12:12 am:

I understand one trick was to have a long broom you put in front of yourself and watched for it being cut. The 600lb Stanley boilers are scary enough for me, I stick to about 250lbs max!
OK, so slip down, interesting! I wonder if the lever gives some sort of cut-off? Might not be needed with a Governor job.


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