When Tight Is To Tight

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: When Tight Is To Tight
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 01:57 pm:

Had a gas leak at the shut of on the carb. Replaced the brass ferrule on the steel gas line and it still leaked so I white knuckled it tight.

Here's the result.


So how do I get the brass piece that broke off in the carb out??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 02:06 pm:

Time to try one of your accessory carbs while you're fixing the NH :-)

I would fasten the carb in a vice and try knock the stuck piece loose with a chisel to the edge.
It's likely to fail, so if it doesn't work right away it's best to clean out the carb, remove loose parts and heat the cast iron around the broken off piece until almost red. When it has cooled down, it'll be much easier to remove the brass part.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Aldrich Orting Wa on Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 02:21 pm:

Try an easy out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Michael Rogers on Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 02:22 pm:

This is one place that an easy-out will work. The brass is soft enough for the easy-out to grip solidly and not snap off. If it were a steel bolt I would not try it but, here you will be OK. Just remove the carb and clamp it in a vice after wrapping it in a rag and remove it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 02:29 pm:

Use a Pipe Nipple Extractor.

This set goes down to 1/8" NPT.

http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece-pipe-nipple-extractor-set-93822.html

Another option is to use the square-type Easy-Out extractors. Sears use to carry them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 02:52 pm:

I agree with the others about the e-z out. Either type should work. Be happy the fitting is what broke. Over tightening the fitting usually breaks the carb body. The brass fittings are usually a taper pipe fitting. When you screw them into the cast iron body of the carb they act like a wedge and will split the fitting hole in the carb if you over tighten.. Good luck with the repair.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly Montana on Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 02:59 pm:

Just had to do that on a filter base on a 2-53 Detroit I'm working over. I used a square type easy out, tapped it in a little and it came right out. PK


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Fischer - Arroyo Grande, CA on Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 03:12 pm:

Jay,

I just finished reading an interesting article on pipe threads. The significant take away from the article was that you can't stop a leak in an NPT pipe thread connection by making it tighter.

The explanation is that the standard thread form features a slightly truncated root and crest. Translated, that means the peak and valley of each thread is slightly flat. Since they are not intended to meet, there will be a spiral leakage path around the joint.

NPT threads are designed to have some sort of sealant, and cannot be expected to seal if used dry. If you have used a sealant and the joint still leaks, correct practice is to disassemble the part, clean thoroughly and inspect condition of threads, then reassemble with fresh sealant. Proper torque is achieved by hand tightening and then continuing to tighten two to three turns with an appropriate tool.

ref: FAA-H-8083-30 Aviation Maintenance Technician Handbook - General

Dick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 03:45 pm:

That valve was not a good valve to use for a shut-off valve anyway.

The gas flow is too restricted, due to the small hole.

It will work fine for the water flow to your refrigerator ice maker.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 03:50 pm:

Thanks guy's !

I think I'll invest in a set of the Harbor freight pipe nipple extractors like Ken suggested.

I have another straight thru NH that uncle Stan restored for me that I'll bolt on and fix this one and hold it as a spare.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 03:52 pm:

Dick,

He wasn't tightening the NPT thread. He was tightening the ferrule while essentially using the NPT end for support... till it broke.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John C Codman on Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 04:35 pm:

I just went through something similar. I could not get the fitting out of the carburetor with what I felt was reasonable force. I removed the carburetor and heated the cast iron with a propane torch (obviously I made sure that the carb. was empty and gave it a couple of days to air out). After the heating, the fitting came out with only reasonable effort. I hate having to extract broken stuff.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 08:21 pm:

Take the carb apart, heat the area with the broken nipple to near red heat, walk away to let it cool and it will probably come out by hand.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier Savannah Tn. on Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 11:19 pm:

Put your cutoff in the line close to the carb, that way you can remove the carb without shutting off the sediment bulb. How many times are they frozen? KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 11:41 pm:

Jay, bring that sucker over (to my messy shop) and I bet we can get it out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan George Long on Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 11:47 pm:

Also maybe use a small dab of Locktite Liquid Thread Tape on these tapered threads. Make sure none goes inside the carburettor of course!
Alan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd, ............Red Deer, Alberta on Thursday, July 09, 2015 - 10:30 am:

"Replaced the brass ferrule on the steel gas line and it still leaked"

An old trick is to use a little bit of white string for packing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Thursday, July 09, 2015 - 11:27 am:

Buy the shut off valve that Langs sells. They look old fashioned, and are the same size as the original elbow. I think they are around $30, and I think it would be difficult to break one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Thursday, July 09, 2015 - 11:37 am:

here is an other tight is to tight.

Andre
Belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, July 09, 2015 - 11:38 am:

I think Jay has a drawer full of old shut off valves to pick from :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Frost on Thursday, July 09, 2015 - 09:24 pm:

I've had good luck sticking the handle end (w/o the handle) of a file in a snapped off brass fitting while "unscrewing" with an adjustable wrench on the business end of the file. Might need to give it a tap or two to get it to grab the brass.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, July 09, 2015 - 11:23 pm:

You can also file some square corners in the broken off piece and insert any of the square drivers mentioned above. The advantage is the driver doesn't have to expand into the broken piece to engage it while at the same time expanding it and making it even tighter.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Thursday, July 09, 2015 - 11:57 pm:

Andre,Vee out crack and Silver solder it.It will hold,done it a few times.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 01:06 am:

Donnie's comment and Andre's pictures are on the mark. I have several NH bodies that are cracked in the same place. It's a very common problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 06:16 am:

So I'm not the only person who does this kind of stuff?


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