A possible reason for difficult/erratic starting?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: A possible reason for difficult/erratic starting?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 01:37 am:

I spent the day draining my roadster's tank. It took all day because I did it multiple times.


The first draining brought out a lot of dirt and bug parts.


Some of this in the carburetor could be a problem.


After the first few drainings I had all the debris strained out by pouring the gas through fine mesh screen cloth. But every time I'm still getting water, so I'll keep at it until that quits.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jem Bowkett, Bracknell United Kingdom on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 01:56 am:

Back in the day, they used to strain gas through a chamois leather to remove water.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Eliason, Whittier, CA on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 06:29 am:

It sounds like water in the gas is sloshing around when you drive, giving the carb an occasional slug of water. If the outlet fitting protrudes into the tank at all, draining all the water out will be a real chore. You might try siphoning with the tube against the bottom of the tank. If your fill cap is off center tilting the car low on that side may help the water collect where you can siphon it out more completely.
Best regards.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 07:45 am:

Wow Steve you are getting some really bad ethanol laden gas! I suspect it also is more humid where you live than where I live. E-10 is hygroscopic, a bad thing for old cars.

I don't know a good answer, except to find one of those legendary and elusive stations where you can buy non "E" gas?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 08:34 am:

Probably the best thing to remove water is acetone, but if it gets near any paint it will remove that, too. Otherwise try some 91% alcohol to remove the water, and then let the tank dry out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 08:46 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 09:00 am:

E85 alcohol fuel will absorb any water in the tank - then you can use it up driving the car :-)
Just open up the main jet slightly.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/297694.html?1341064408


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 09:27 am:

Old tanks, ethanol and humidity strike again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul O'Neil, Fullerton, CA, USA on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 12:00 pm:

Did the water cause the inside of the tank to rust?

I found a rusty tank after the car sat for s few years while the engine was rebuilt and other work done. I have had so much trouble with fuel lines & carbs clogging with rust in the past with other old cars that I just bought a new tank for the flivver and saved the trauma on the road.

Unless your tank is an original it might be best just to replace it.

Vintage Paul, clean new gas tank . . .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry LaPatka- East Tennessee on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 01:59 pm:

Steve, my uncle was 6 time national champion hydroplane boat champion and he told me one of his secrets to NEVER having problems with gasoline as was so prevalent back in the 50's and 60's was he never poured one once of fuel into a boat tank with straining it through a piece of felt. Since thqt time with any of the racecars I have owned or driven, whether carb, fuel injected, blown or webers I took heed and to the day I have NEVER had a gas related problem. I use a Model A Tank screen tube lined with felt and all gas goes through it. Every so often throw the felt away and reline. After all you can buy a square yard of felt for $2.00 so it is the cheapest and best way to strain gas. Once the tank is clean try it and it's easy to take it on the road. You will be amazed at what come out of a pump, can or other storage containers. All the best...............


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 02:03 pm:

Steve if that tanks not out of the car it should be. Needs a good toss around with some solvent in it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 02:07 pm:

I may eventually spring $150+ for a new tank, but I'm not there yet. I'll see if this cleaning does the trick.


Here's the water I collected, with a penny for scale.


I didn't want to make this tank cleaning my life's work, so I enlisted some mechanical help. I was a little apprehensive about the possible combination of gas fumes and an electric motor, so I put the shop vac safely outside and used a long hose to suck out the tank.


The first suck-out removed some dirt and water. The second one was much cleaner. Better, when I put gas in the tank and ran it into the pan on the floor it came out clean, with no dirt or water.

So I put 2 gallons in the tank and tried several starts. I set the carburetor at 1 turns out, primed twice, turned the switch to BAT, and pulled. I got a start on the first pull. I shut it off immediately and tried MAG starts. In six tries, I got a start on the second pull five times and on the first pull once. I'm calling that close enough for gummint work. The real test will be how the car starts after being driven around with fuel sloshing about in the tank. If it passes that test I'll declare victory.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 02:16 pm:

I should add that a future project will be to take the tank out of the car, put some chain in it and tumble it, then give it a thorough flushing. I'll see how long today's cleaning lasts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Fedullo on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 02:28 pm:

Many shop vacs exhaust the air they suck in across the motor for cooling. If that is true in your case you may be blowing gas vapor across an arcing motor. I read a story of a fireman (ironically) causing a fire by draining gas with a shop vac. I would advise a hand pump or some method that does not pass gas or vapors across the motor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 02:48 pm:

Oh Oh...

Be careful what you suck with that vacuum....

Gas is not acceptable if you want to enjoy your T...

This story may be old, but is true:
Injured In Boat Explosion
Fire Officials: Spilled Fuel Sparks Blast

UPDATED: 6:19 p.m. EDT August 8, 2003

WEIRS BEACH, N.H. -- Three people were seriously injured in an explosion on a boat in Weirs Beach Friday.

Fire officials said three employees of Channel Marine were performing maintenance on a used boat that had just been purchased. The workers were topping off a gas tank when they realized they had been filling the waste tank, causing gas to spill into the boat, officials said.

The employees apparently used a vacuum to clean up the spilled fuel, sparking the explosion.


Two men, ages 24 and 28, suffered serious burns. One was taken to Lakes Region General Hospital, while the other was flown to Massachusetts General Hospital.

"Literally within seconds of turning the dry vac on, the gasoline ignited," Laconia fire Chief Ken Erickson said. "There was a tremendous explosion and flash fire. The two men in the boat received substantial burns on their whole body."

A 22-year-old woman standing on the dock was blown back by the explosion and suffered first-degree burns on her face and arms. She was taken to Lakes Region General. There was no immediate word on the conditions of any of the victims.

The Laconia Fire Department and state fire marshal's office are investigating the incident.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 02:59 pm:

That's exactly why the vacuum was outside, with plenty of space between it and me, and a fire extinguisher standing by just in case. A better approach would probably be to use an automobile fuel pump.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 03:37 pm:

A friend of mine was using MEK to prepare some structure inside an aircraft for painting. He spilled about a pint of MEK on the carpet inside the aircraft near the outside door.

He decided he should try to vacuum up the MEK in fear of the carpet being stained.

When the vacuum erupted into a fireball it was a real good thing that the vacuum was outside the aircraft.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Saturday, July 11, 2015 - 12:10 am:

Glad to see you making steady progress Steve, and not blown up. Have you checked the sediment bulb screen?..With all that dirt in the tank, i would imagine the screen would be packed as well., just a thought out loud..:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill dugger on Saturday, July 11, 2015 - 12:26 am:

When I was between 16 and 18, we lived in South Central Missouri, east of Mansfield(Home of Laura Engalls Wilder) and my Dad had a small grocery store. Some of the natives that lived around our part of the county would by rubbing alcohol and put in the gas tanks to get rid of water in the gas tanks. It seemed to work!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Saturday, July 11, 2015 - 03:13 am:

The flame can travel down the hose against the drought and ignite the tank.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Saturday, July 11, 2015 - 08:48 am:

Bill Dugger:

HEET (alcohol for water removal) - before alcohol was common in gasoline, a lot of folks used this stuff up here in Minnesota.

1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, July 11, 2015 - 09:38 am:

RE; "rubbing alcohol" I read something on that years ago. As I recall it has about the same proof as the HEET at a fraction of the cost.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Saturday, July 11, 2015 - 09:59 am:

Rubbing alcohol - isopropyl - is a mixture of alcohol and water. You don't want it in your gas tank.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd, ............Red Deer, Alberta on Saturday, July 11, 2015 - 10:43 am:

Any one use the funnels with the screen the will pass gasoline but trap the water?

When I lived in Manitoba we used methyl hydrate for gas line anti-freeze.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John C Codman on Saturday, July 11, 2015 - 11:28 am:

As has been mentioned, Alcohol will absorb water. That's the good news. As has been mentioned, Alcohol will absorb water. That's the bad news. If you know that there's water in your tank, adding gas with Ethanol will absorb the water, but allowing the T's vented-to-the-atmosphere fuel system to sit with Alcohol-laden gasoline will cause the fuel to absorb moisture from the atmosphere and will cause rust. Ask me how I know. If my T is going to sit all winter, the tank will be drained, the fuel cap left off, and a piece of cheesecloth draped over the fuel filler opening to keep out any bugs and dust.


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