Model T tie down points

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Model T tie down points
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John H. Nichols on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 - 12:06 pm:

This has probably been suggested before, but I was wondering why can a Model T er locate a tied down ring at each and also two more on the rear cross member gusset plate on the front frame member ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 - 01:48 pm:

It is easier (and I think more secure) to use wheel bonnet's


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bender Tulsa Oklahoma on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 - 02:30 pm:

Straps over the axle is secure. Going to the frame will let the car bounce because of the springs. IMO


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Freighter Jim on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 - 02:47 pm:

John,

You can find axle straps like Mike mentioned at YT Tractor Supply or another farm supply store.

You can also find ratcheting nylon straps rated at 10K.


Freighter Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 - 03:54 pm:

I put a strap around the rear axle as close to the wheel as possible. Pull to the corner of trailer on that side.
For the front I put a strap around the front axle just to the inside of the front spring shackle and pull to the corner of the trailer on that side. That way the pull is on both the axle and the spring. For long trips I also put another strap on each location and pull it to a ring toward the outside center of the trailer to equal the pull forward and backward on each axle. It might be overkill, but it hasn't caused any damage so far. I have been using this method for at least 20 years. Previously I attached the strap to the frame, but found that there is much more bouncing of the trailer that way.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Partington on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 - 06:17 pm:

You might find my method different but I DON'T tie my T down. I built my trailer with 3inch deep runners that the car sits in up to the front chock slip in the rear chocks & thats it been doing it this way for over 20 years and thousands of miles never a problem it just sits there/ The strain you can put on your T by usuing modern rachet straps is way over what a T can stand particually the front radius ball joint. I have a very happy T. Also I never drive my car into the trailer I always winch & therefore I am always watching all 4 corners & in control. My tuppence worth.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 - 07:38 pm:

I am surprised that nobody has really contradicted comments above. It may be that a few of the people that trailer often are busy on major tours right now.
In several past threads, there have been comments and even photos of cars with the front wishbone ball pulled out of its pan socket by tie-downs put directly onto the axle.
I usually put my front tie-downs over the front cross member. But you cannot do that on some Ts, such as later cars with the panel under the radiator shell. On cars where that cannot be done, I usually just run the tie-downs over the front spring itself barely below the cross member.
At least one photo was posted in the past of a brass era T where the rear end was pulled hard enough to break the aluminum hogs head where the U-joint ball is connected.
I again sometimes run the tie-downs over the rear spring barely below the cross member.
I often crisscross the tie downs, right side of car to left side of trailer, and left side of car to right side of trailer. This keeps the car from sliding sideways while travelling. I usually pull the tie-downs just snug. Generally speaking, tie-downs should never be pulled really tight on automobiles. Part of the reason for this is that car trailers tend to flex while travelling, and force a yank and twist into the car that can cause damage. Enclosed trailers are less prone to this problem because the box enclosure make the trailer more ridged.
Drive, and trailer, safely, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 - 08:58 pm:

Doug - You're right about one thing! Your method is different! And your method scares me! All I can say is, that apparently, you've been "LUCKY" so far for 20 years! I don't know how far or how fast you trailer your "T", but on the highway and at highway speeds, I can't help but think that that's dangerous. And after a lifetime career in law enforcement, I can tell you that what you're doing would be considered "an unsecured load", and if,....(God forbid) you were ever involved in any kind of accident where the Model T and trailer was involved, you would receive a citation for "unsecured load".

Now then, if you have some method of ensuring that your Model "T" will definitely stay with the trailer in the event of some sort of violent emergency evasive action or some similar situation, then disregard all I've said. But from reading your post carefully, you did say that the Model "T" does "just sit there"!

Please don't be offended by what I've said, but please be careful,.....it just doesn't sound safe to me,......Sincerely,......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 - 10:20 pm:

Harold,Better for people to learn here than from the DOT after the fact!! Bud in Wheeler,Mi.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Baudoux Grayling Michigan on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 - 11:31 pm:

I haul our Fordor loaded backwards on an open trailer. I use two clevises around the front spring, right next to the front cross member. One on each side. The straps go from the clevis to the D-ring on the opposite corner of the trailer, so that the straps cross. On the rear, I reach up over the frame and hook the end of the strap onto the corner gussets between the frame and rear cross member, then to the D-ring on the front corners of the trailer. I tighten the straps to load the suspension of the car. I run another strap side to side over both frame rails and snug it down. Then I pinch the end of a roll of Saran Wrap in the driver's door, and wrap around the car a few times. I secure the tail end of the wrap material under the windshield wiper.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Partington on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 - 11:36 pm:

Harold, Thank you for your comment. As it is an enclosed trailer even if it managed to jump out of the tracks it has no where to go. It can't get over the front as the chock is above wheel centre height. It is loosley held at the front by the winch with the strain off plus the back door won't let it out. Our Ford Territory tows the very well balanced trailer at around 50 to 60 MPH in your numbers. In 2016 we have had our 1912 touring 60 years and I am very careful with it.When I discovered that a T in 3 inch tracks doesn't want to go anywhere, that was around 20 years ago when somebody inadvertinly left a V/8 Supercar loose in a semi I drove several hundred miles & the car hadn't moved an inch so I just limited how far a car could move front rear & sideways & its proved a great success. No sctratches no tie down rubs or burns no damage whatsoever, think outside the square it is secured & it is very safe just jiggles along behind the Territory & come out bright & shiney. Four tiedowns rated at 2000kilos each pulling F&R on a 600kilo Model T is no good in my book, Each to his own I say.Doug


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Verne Shirk on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 - 11:56 pm:

Years ago (1960's), we had a couple in one of our local car clubs that were trailering their early Overland speedster in an enclosed trailer to an event in Oklahoma. He never looked behind while driving. That is what is wife was for (she never learned to drive). Well, they pulled in to town and his wife looked behind. She said to her husband, "why there is an old car following us". She looked again and said, "it looks just like ours". After her third glance she exclaimed, "IT IS OURS". They stopped and the car stopped right behind them. They dropped the trails and winched the car in. How lucky they were! The car had been winched into the trailer against a stop block in the front. He drove a couple of nails through the stop block behind the back wheel into the floor. No tie downs. The winch had a wire type S-hook.

I bought that trailer years later and added chains and boomers. Chains in front and chains plus boomers in the rear...looped around the axles. I since have gone to nylon straps. Like Wayne said, I don't tighten them too tight. I broke a radius rod by getting them too tight one time...but that is another story.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 12:16 am:

Doug - You just said in your first line,......"As it is an enclosed trailer.........."

You didn't say anywhere in your first post that you were talking about an enclosed trailer! I'd say that about 4 out of 5 trailers that are discussed here on the forum are open trailers, which I "assumed" yours was! And you know what they say about the word "assumed", right?

Well, in order to "save face", let me just say that had it been an open trailer, I think my "unsolicited advice" was right on the mark. Ha,ha,......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 04:43 am:

One more time,If it goes airborne in a enclosed trailer will those 1/8" plywood and Alum walls stop it?? Bud in Wheeler,Mi.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John P. Steele, Montana on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 10:43 am:

Bud if your T is airborne in your trailer you might have other issues that could be more pressing at the moment. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 12:15 pm:

John,So you know about Michigan roads!! With a grin Bud in Wheeler,Mi.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 04:08 pm:

Some years ago, a friend of mine was trailering his model T show car across the mid-West when a storm touched down nearby. The resulting winds flipped his enclosed trailer and tow vehicle onto their sides. The car was tied down so well inside the trailer that it stayed in place on its side and only minor damage was done to the car.
Just something to think about.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Greg Whaley, Caledon Ontario Canada on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 05:32 pm:

Here is how I do it. Crossed at front and crossed at back.






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 06:33 pm:

My $0.02: I used to tie down on front and rear axles. I got to one tour and found I had a broken torque tube from tying down next to the pumpkin similar to what Greg shows. After towing to the tour I didn't get to drive!

I've had no more damage to the car since using basket straps. I find them faster and easier to use than any other option. They are more secure and safer also. I don't stretch out to the corners of the trailer but have put down two "E" rails so I hook each wheel front and back in place. I leave the winch strap hooked on for extra security.

It is pretty near impossible to pull a radius rod ball out of it's socket that way... unless you are towing with a Saturn rocket instead of a truck!

The bonus is that those Basket straps will hold down modern cars, other antiques, even my Gyroplane also so they get plenty of use.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 07:21 pm:

Terry - what size and by and do you use? All the ones I looked at online seem too small to fit T wheels.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Freighter Jim on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 07:38 pm:

It is interesting to see the various methods used by members to secure their Treasured T's .....

Good thread .... :-)



Freighter Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 08:08 pm:

Ron, I get them at the swap meets. One size fits all.

I just went on line to pull down a link to them for you and I discovered there are dozens of designs available. I don't like any of the ones I found. What I like is a 2" strap with a 4" web over the top of the wheel. The main strap goes from a D ring through the basket web, through the front hook strap back through the web, through the D ring and down to a ratchet.

This way is adjustable except for the web. It fits almost everything and is the type used by the commercial towers in our area. Since I can't find a photo of the type I use and like, I will go down to the trailer and get one out for photos for you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 08:35 pm:

Terry - I really appreciate that!! Thank you!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 10:39 pm:

I'd be interested too in pics or a link. My doodle bug if not strapped down hard will move a little on the trailer. Problem is I am worried of pulling something apart sooner or later.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Martel in Temperance MI on Thursday, July 16, 2015 - 12:14 am:

Here is my method for the front wheels;

At the rear I have two axle straps through the spring shackles crossed.

The car rides SOLID on the trailer, the suspension is free to absorb ( those Michigan roads), and it takes less than 5 minutes to secure it down.

(Message edited by Chuck_cherry_valley_il on July 16, 2015)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Thursday, July 16, 2015 - 01:10 am:

Ron, my straps are like Chuck's. I fear that Chuck might pull his radius ball out if he cranks on the rear ratchets. I prefer four wheel tie-downs, you can do it for around $100.


Here you see my strap. I like this one the best. The strap with the D ring is used to cinch down on any wheel. I have used it on large pick-up truck wheels, 19" wire laced MG wheels, 1927 Model T wire and wood wheels, 1913 model T wooden non-demountables, even dirt bike wheels on my Gyroplane!

These fit everything! One of them rubbed on the body of a 1940's pickup and got frayed. All you have to do is get another 2" strap with D ring and you are good to go for about $15 "repair".

The first photo shows all the parts: strap and two "E" rail anchors next to my "E" rail. The next photo shows how to apply the straps.

You can get similar straps with various kinds of adjusters, clips and hooks. I urge you to only use closed hooks. If anything loosens it still stays connected. I had a friend who lost a Brush Roadster out of a trailer because he used open hooks. Also don't buy the ones which have the webbing for over the wheel sewn to the other strap. If it is free to move on that strap then it will fit all wheels. If the two straps are sewn together then there will be lots of wheels it won't fit.

IMHO, TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Thursday, July 16, 2015 - 01:21 am:

If you want to know what an open hook is look at Greg's photo.



Imagine if this load shifts a little bit... a couple of inches... hit a little bump and it will disengage!




Here is a closed hook. You can see why this is much better. The difference in price between open and closed hooks is negligible.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Freighter Jim on Thursday, July 16, 2015 - 05:20 am:

I will add this ...

If you are only hauling a Model T and never any other vehicle ....

Because of the relatively light weight - a good method would be a four point tie down using over the wheel straps secured to e-trac as illustrated

You can run the e-trac the same direction as the wheels or you can run the e-trac so that it is perpendicular.

I have several e-trac sections in my trailer.

I buy my e-trac at Redneck Trailer Supply.

It is rated at 50,000 pounds - thicker so you can run a vehicle over it without crushing it.

I buy my tie down products at Summit Racing.

I don't use these - but here are some tire basket straps:

@ http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hig-1275500/overview/

These are the ratcheting straps I use that have spring loaded hooks:


@ http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g7955/overview/


Freighter Jim






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Greg Whaley, Caledon Ontario Canada on Thursday, July 16, 2015 - 05:25 am:

Terry - great - now I need to get and pick up some closed hook straps :-)

I've been hauling cars tractors, you name it for years on open decks and enclosed trailers and have yet to have an issue.

But it only takes once......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Thursday, July 16, 2015 - 06:21 am:

Terry - I really appreciate you taking the time to post those pictures and write those descriptions!! It was very, very helpful!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Thursday, July 16, 2015 - 07:50 am:

Terry,It's good to see you back!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bud in Wheeler,Mi.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John C Codman on Thursday, July 16, 2015 - 09:13 am:

Mike's comment about "going to the frame will let the car bounce because of the springs" flies in the face of my experience. Going to the frame will compress the springs and restrict bouncing. Many years of towing race cars taught me that lesson. Everybody who towed stock cars here in the Northeast would put their tiedown straps or chains around a frame rail.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Thursday, July 16, 2015 - 09:50 am:

Just to add something. What ever you use, make use where you hook it to the trailer is strong enough to hold what you are hauling. If that E-Track or D-ring is not fastened to the trailer right you are wasting your time. "Chain is only as strong as the weakest link" Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Freighter Jim on Thursday, July 16, 2015 - 11:39 am:

Dan,

That is important.

To get the rating of the e-trac you are supposed to utilize each hole.

I hit every hole within 12 inches of the end - then every other hole.


Freighter Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd, ............Red Deer, Alberta on Thursday, July 16, 2015 - 12:06 pm:

I tie our T down similar to what Greg Whaley shows in his pictures. And I've also been admonished about the chance of potential damage. What is unseen in my case is the tie that holds the front and rear axles from being pulled in opposite directions. The tie is 2 long J hooks with a boomer in the middle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Thursday, July 16, 2015 - 12:51 pm:

Dan, I've thought about that and not beefed mine up. You are making a good point. I guess I will be adding more bolts to my set-up. Even though they will be working mostly in tension, I don't figure I will need to go to grade 8's.

TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John H. Nichols on Tuesday, July 21, 2015 - 08:33 pm:

To all of those hobbyists who answered my query, I want to thank you for speaking up. Now to explain, why so late in responding. After posting thread, it looked to me as if I might have a virus. I removed computer from the Internet system and let it set for several days.
I finally got it to a service center ( Big Box Store ) on a Thursday and picked it up on Saturday
and I let it sit until this evening.

Thanks again and I did read every response.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 12:36 pm:

Sorry about resurrecting this post, but I just saw the definitive way to tow... unfortunately it's not a model T, but should work with our cars just the same as with this truck.



TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 02:23 pm:

Regarding the photos posted by Greg Whaley. The front axle would be OK because it is fastened right where the axle, spring, and radius rod come together, which is the strongest point on the front end. However, it is very easy to bend the rear differential housing by either jacking in the middle or pulling the strap tight in the middle. The stronger point would be at the end of the tube next to the wheel. Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Chochole, Oswego, IL on Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 02:51 pm:

FWIW: I have done what Norman indicated; tie down the rear at each wheel and the front at each spring perch and criss-cross the front ties. Seems to be very strong and allows the car to flex enough on a trailer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Freighter Jim on Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 03:01 pm:

Terry,

I don't know for sure but it seems that flatbed is overloaded given the weight of that truck it is hauling ..... :-)


Freighter Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 10:13 pm:

I always tie to the cross members both front and rear. After a few miles, I re tighten a bit more and they stay tight after that. Also, I installed 1/4" steel plates under the trailer where the D rings go. There's no way they will pull out.


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