I know, this quite a departure from my project, but I got a set of these, took them apart for painting and then had a wee bit of trouble putting them back together again to install on the car. So I thought to myself, maybe other people have had trouble with this contraption and might benefit from an illustrated parts break down of these assemblies.
According to the guy who makes these brakes (he never gave me his name), there aren't any part numbers for this assembly. He just goes by a description of the part and the year of the car.
I know we all know how to put on a drum, but with this particular drum, you'll need those longer hub bolts, I know I did and I even put in split lock washers before I peened the bolts over...can't be too cautious.
The Equalizer with the Easy-Slider Assembly is the only page that I could get any part numbers off of...not sure their of any use actually, since it comes assembled when you get the set
I was told by the guy who makes these, that there wasn't any need nor use for my drawing, that they just weren't necessary...I think he's wrong on that account though.
Hope you all find this helpful.
Martin..thanks for the information. My '13 that I acquired last January has RM's on it. Love 'em. Nice to have a parts explosion for future use.
Martin, thanks for posting these drawings. I need to work on my brakes and I know this info will help. Seems to me the manufacturer would want to include these with every set he sells.
If you put in lock washers the nuts will hit the inner parking brake shoes. The RM brake setup is not intended to replace the parking brake or Ford band brake. It augments braking (a lot) when stopping going forward only.
Great job Martin. I think this will help a lot of members with their install. The people that appreciate it the most will be the silent ones, but I thank you for taking the time to put this together.
Martin, Thanks for the drawings. I am getting ready to install my Rocky Mountain Brakes and the drawings will be a nice reference. Even if it is simple to put them together as the manufacture suggests, it is nice to have a picture to look at. I agree with Royce about the lock washers. If you peen the bolts over, the washers are not needed, and a "split ring" type of lock washer can break or split and come out from under the nut. Thanks again for all your drawings....
I was going to say the same thing about the split washers, this is one time when IF you need a lock washer the internal or external ring type is more appropriate.
BTW, great drawings--now if you could find an original pair of RMs, and do a drawing of them, we could see the difference and maybe modify the moderns to work like the old ones do (they work in reverse as well as forward).
"I was told by the guy who makes these, that there wasn't any need nor use for my drawing, that they just weren't necessary...I think he's wrong on that account though."
He might be right IF there is no trouble. I had trouble with mine as with most other parts of this project and found the instructions packed with the brakes very close to useless. Help from other local T folk helped sort the problem after I went as far as I could on my own.
Your drawings can only help, thank you for them!
As with all your other drawings, great work. You always asked us to critique them for you. The only thing I see missing is the brake lining and rivets. You show the lining on the band, but it may not be apparent to some that it is there. submitted with respect and appreciation...
I beg to differ with you, but that is not a true Rocky Mountain Brake Assembly, and not even close to it! The originals were much better, and a totally different design.
This thread has pictures of original Rocky Mountain brakes versus the current offering:
The diagram shown in the first post is correct for the brakes now being sold by the Rocky Mountain Brake Company. It is the same for the AC brake which was being sold in 1989. There was a version made many years ago which were discussed and posted in the message posted by Mark Strange. If you have an older version, Mark's diagram might be correct for your car.
Another old thread that shows original Rocky Mountain brakes, plus it has some pics of my original AC brakes that Norm mentioned in his post above.
A while back Frank Harris posted that he offered to illustrate the RM brake assembly in trade for a free set of brakes. The manufacturer did not accept Franks' offer. Too bad.
Thanks for posting this, Martin.
I know that the lock washers are unnecessary, but since they were on my old hub bolts (my dad loved split lock washers, they're everywhere on and in my car), I just transferred them to my new hub bolts and no they don't rub on my brake shoes. They clear the drum shoes by about .060 or so. In fact I had to grind off the bolt ends a wee bit because they were hitting the shoes (they stuck out of the nut with the lock washers on by about 3/16 of an inch.
Hmmm, an interesting configuration those older versions are...gonna have to draw them too looks like.
The guy who makes these new ones told me a story about some fella from the Long Beach Model T Club that said he was a graphics guy and offered to do a full set of illustrations for his brake assemblies in exchange for a set of brakes. He told this fellow NO! I on the other hand wasn't trying to finagle a set of brakes out of the guy I just wanted to help him with some illustrations of his brake system for parts identification purposes...hell I didn't even mention money or anything and he told me NO! They were unnecessary and not wanted or needed...he also told me he was 85 years old and that since he didn't need them back when that other fella offered him some he didn't need them now either! I still think he's wrong, I'm also doing a pictorial version of his instructions and yes I thought his instructions were almost useless as well. Basically because he says some things backwards of how they actually work...either that or I'm very dyslexic and didn't know it.
I called Don Lang after talking with this gentleman (because Don's company is where I got the brakes from) to see if he knew any more about part numbers or if there were indeed any ordering systems for replacement parts or not. He told me there wasn't and not to worry about what this guy said and that he (Don Lang) wanted my drawings and also the graphic instructions I'm making as well...works for me!
Whoops! I didn't see Tom Magee's post, lol. Yep! the guy told me that story too and was proud that he said NO...stupid, very stupid...but of course I didn't pay any attention to the guy and his "NO"...I went and drew them anyway.
Folks can tell me no I don't want that drawn, but if its something that benefits more people than the guy who says "NO"...you can bet I'm drawing it anyway.
I don't want any part of a brake system that only world going forward. Royce's dad built his own, they worked well in both directions. Chevy and others built band brake systems that worked well in either direction also.
It is my understanding that most servo action brakes only work effectively in one direction, the RM Brakes provided by the current suppliers are built by Bud Williams in Temecula, are such a design. When installed correctly, I found the instructions just fine, they are VERY effective and I can lock both rear wheels on my 24 Coupe and the 14 Touring on almost any road surface. Notice I didn't say stop the car, they are still rear wheel only with minimal road contact area.
The drawings above are for one wheel, I think it is the left, they will have to be reversed for the right hand side.
Please don't bad mouth this guy, he does a great job for the hobby and I for one prefer the looks of these to disk brakes which is the only realistic option.
Not bad mouthing the guy Tony, only telling what he told me...I still think he's wrong about not needing graphic representation of his instructions...pictures speak more words than one man can write...that's why I'm making the instructions anyway based upon his somewhat hard to interpret instructions and my experience installing them.
I told him repeatedly that I wasn't grousing his product, in fact I like his product, they work just fine on my car. And I'm not worried that they don't hold nor work well on hills or in reverse...that's what the transmission brake is for and that's why these are sold with explicit instructions not to disconnect your trans brake, that the Rocky's are only an "accessory" brake system and not intended to be your main system...in fact there is a disclaimer to that effect in his instructions.
When I called, (you said his name is Bud Williams) him, I told him I had already drew the caliper, equalizer and drum drawings, I never mentioned money nor wanting a set of brakes (which I don't...I've got one already), I was merely wanting to help to make replacement parts ordering easier and wondering if he had replacement part numbers for the caliper assembly. His response was that story about the Frank Harris trying to swap graphics for brakes, where he told him NO! I on the other hand already had them drawn, I wanted to send them to him to see what he thought, to which he told me they weren't necessary and I also got the big fat NO! That's also when he told me he was 85 years old and that he was thinking of retiring from making the brakes.
You're right the drum and caliper are only the left hand side. The only difference between the right and the left hand side on the caliper is the placement of the spring on the cast yoke that that fits round the rear radius rods. There's a tab on the casting where it can be drilled for either side. The other difference is the lever pull, there is a right and left hand one of those too. But you can figure out how to put this bloody cluge together from the one drawing I've drawn (if you're wondering what the word "cluge" means it's an engineering term for a contraption of unusual and sometimes unnecessary complexity...sort of like a Rube Goldberg device...which is how I view these brakes).
A word on the original Rocky's...they are cleaner looking and far less complicated in appearance and to install...not sure the operating is easier or not, the cable system looks a bit odd to me, but it must've worked really well. But it's a really interesting assembly too...so I'll just have to draw it too wont I.
Martin, please don't take this as a complaint, I really like what you are doing with these drawings. They are great. Just one little bit of a heads up, those aren't calipers, they are bands. Calipers are for disc brakes. Just sayin'<g>. Dave (PS, keep up the good work!)
David, I know but bands usually suggest one part of the assembly, what do you call the rest of it? Since it mechanically calibrates the tension placed on the band...caliper just seems to fit even though it's being adjusted mechanically by a nut on top of the assembly with varying pressure being supplied through the rods connected to the brake pedal and not hydraulically like on disc brakes...it's basically the same mechanism or at least does the same job constricting in a braking action upon a fixed wheel surface that is a drum and not a disc.
But I guess "Band Assembly" would work also I suppose...I'll change it.
Yep, does the same thing, but in a totally different way. That's why drum brakes have shoes instead of calipers.<g> Dave
Ok, how's this...
Martin : Is this the RIGHT side Band Assembly , viewed from the inside ???
Yes, it's the right side looking aft.
Or more appropriately it should probably look more like this...
Martin, thumbs up! Dave
ATTABOY MART !!!! Yer a Wurlitzer
I have added this to my Martin Vowell Book for future reference I don't have RM's yet but the nickel and dime stack is getting pretty high