Need Differential Help

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Need Differential Help
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rand Ward Payson, Ut. on Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 12:50 pm:

I just took apart the ring and pinion gear assembly on my 26 Tudor to see if everything looks OK. The problem I have is I haven't seen one before this one so I'm not sure if everything is there and is OK. The gears look good to me. No appreciable wear. The safety wire on it looks like bailing wire or common shop wire rather than stainless safety wire. The catalog companies offer a modern upgrade Roller thrust bearing set. Is that a good idea? how snug should the 10 bolts holding the ring gear be? Almost all of them were finger loose and some had play in them they were so loose. Thanks for your help. Rand


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rand Ward Payson, Ut. on Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 12:57 pm:

I'm trying to reduce the size of the photo so it will upload. Sorry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rand Ward Payson, Ut. on Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 01:08 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 01:53 pm:

The roller thrust bearings are not necessary, and in my opinion are not better than bronze washers. A Model T is reliable and sturdy for its intended use when assembled like Ford did it originally. Start adding complexity and the results are not what you expect. "Modern" and "New" don't mean better.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Chaffin......Corona, CA on Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 01:58 pm:

Stick with the bronze and steel thrust plates. Tried and true. Once set up correctly, you should never have a need to revisit the issue in your lifetime.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 02:26 pm:

Rand, I would suggest that your replace all of the ring gear bolts. The bolts should be tight but, not so tight that the head pops off. Make sure to wire them together when finished. I would use the bronze and steel thrust washers. The roller bearings are not an improvement.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rand Ward Payson, Ut. on Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 05:02 pm:

Stephen, The photo shows everything I took apart. The only washer in the cluster is the one showing in the middle of the picture and it appears to be stainless or at least it's shiny like stainless steel. Is that everything I need in this rear end? Should I order new bolts with the holes in the head for wiring them off? Are there other thrust washers I need to get? Thanks, Rand


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rand Ward Payson, Ut. on Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 05:05 pm:

Stephen, The photo shows everything I took apart. The only washer in the cluster is the one showing in the middle of the picture and it appears to be stainless or at least it's shiny like stainless steel. Is that everything I need in this rear end? Should I order new bolts with the holes in the head for wiring them off? Are there other thrust washers I need to get? Thanks, Rand


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rand Ward Payson, Ut. on Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 05:09 pm:

Can anyone tell me why the bolts might have been wired off with bailing wire? Is that normal? Should I use that wire again or use the thinner stainless wire used elsewhere on the T, that I already have a spool of


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 05:29 pm:

Rand, there should be in total four of the steel thrust washers. On each side of the differential you have two of these washes with a bronze one in between. Check inside your axle housings if the steel washers are still stuck to their pins. Yes, buy the new bolts which are drilled for wire. The old wire should not be reused. Also, make certain to fully dissemble the drive shaft assembly and rebuild it. They are pretty much always shot.

https://www.modeltford.com/item/2528.aspx
https://www.modeltford.com/item/2529.aspx
https://www.modeltford.com/item/2519.aspx

This book is very useful.
https://www.modeltford.com/item/RM7.aspx

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rand Ward Payson, Ut. on Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 06:02 pm:

Stephen, Thanks for the response. I'll order the book tonight from Lang'I took apart the axle housing months ago, and then I got sick and was down for over half the year so things just sat. I may have the Old ones, if they were against the axle housings. I will need to look around and see if I can locate them Would it be advisable to just order some new ones now? That way I would know they were all good. I really appreciate your help. I'm new at this and want to do it correctly as best I can so I really appreciate all the help you guys offer me. Rand


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 06:31 pm:

Rand, they are usually ok as long as they don't have any deep pitting.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rand Ward Payson, Ut. on Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 07:57 pm:

OK Stephen, I located the washers. The steel washers appear to be fine. The two brass washers however aren't so good. For a start, the washers don't appear to be brass but a soft metal alloy of some sort. The edge on both are in terrible shape and flake off it you try to smooth it out. It almost has the appearance of lead. I put in on a wire wheel and it ground off really easy and left a lead like appearance. The grooves in one are OK and have a Ford script imprinted it it but the 2nd one's grooves are almost worn down to nothing. It looks like I might be ordering another set of them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Zahorik on Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 08:05 pm:

Rand, I'm surprised that no has mentioned the MTFCA book available in the MTFCA store. See the home page for the spot to click on. Go to the catalog and these manuals are in a few pages, looks like $12. Well worth the price.

FRONT AXLE & STANDARD REAR AXLE
A 31-page manual covering the section on the front axle covers restoration procedures, inspection and alignment. The section on the standard rear axle provides a description and parts list, disassembly instructions, drive shaft assembly, axle housings, differential assembly, general assembly, ring and pinion adjustment, and final assembly.
This book helped me. I've done a few since. Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rand Ward Payson, Ut. on Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 08:16 pm:

Thanks for the tip Mike. I think this might be the same book that Stephen mentioned above. This one is $12.00 as well. Take a look at this one offered at Lang's. Thanks, Rand


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 09:48 pm:

Rand, it's the same book.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 11:23 pm:

Rand, "the two brass washers" that you describe are most likely the old babbitt style that break up and crumble. Replace them with the bronze style washers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 11:32 pm:

1 Yes, get the MTFCA Axle book. You have to measure things, not just eyeball them, and Glen gives you the measurements and tells what to measure.
2 This explains those Babbitt thrust washers you found and need to ditch: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG79.html
3 While the roller thrust bearings are not an improvement, the Fun Projects pinion bearing is. I have no intention of ever using the stock pinion bearing again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rand Ward Payson, Ut. on Sunday, July 19, 2015 - 11:46 am:

Thanks for your help. looks like I need to purchase a few books.


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