Easy start, hard start, no start... Here we go again.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Easy start, hard start, no start... Here we go again.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, July 20, 2015 - 03:03 pm:

After the recent cleaning-out-the-fuel-system adventure, the roadster was as easy to start as it should be. Then, the last trip I made into town with it, I had to pull the crank several times to start and come home. But on Saturday, when I tried starting again, it was a total no-go. So this morning I set about correcting the problem. It seemed that water in the fuel was the previous problem, so I started with that. Draining the float bowl brought out a little H2O, but this is what I got out of the sediment bulb.


I've poured off most of the gas so you can easily see the dirty water. Getting so much water in gas recently tells me that I need to avoid even 10% ethanol and see if that solves the problem.

So I took off the NH and blew out all the passages, reinstalled it and tried starting. Nothing. Not even a cough. What the...? All sorts of possibilities occurred to me. Was a leaking head gasket running water into the cylinders? Nope. I took out the plugs and all was dry. I did find a broken plug on #4. Was that the problem? Nope. One broken plug shouldn't prevent a T from starting if everything else is right. So I replaced the broken plug, and while I was at it I checked all of them and set the gaps at .030". What about the timer? The New Day had one of those bronze-colored brushes that was worn at an odd angle, so I replaced it with a carbon brush. But the timer looked OK otherwise, and I doubted that it was the problem. Had the timing somehow slipped? No, I checked that and it was still set perfectly. I was getting really aggravated that something that should be simple was giving me such a bad time. Then I noticed this.


When I reinstalled the NH, I had forgotten all about it. I made the obvious correction, primed twice, switched to BAT, and started on the first pull. I shut it off, primed twice, switched to MAG, and started on the fist pull. So now the roadster is back in business until another load of water makes its way past a filled-up sediment bulb. I'd worry about this adventure signaling the onset of senile dementia, but I've always been this way.
:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, July 20, 2015 - 03:19 pm:

Okay,....not afraid to show my ignorance,......"the obvious correction",......???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller - Thunder Bay, ON on Monday, July 20, 2015 - 03:22 pm:

Harold, I'm not entirely sure with a valve that's also an elbow but maybe Steve can tell us if you line up the handle with the inlet or the outlet for "ON."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenny Edmondson, Indianapolis on Monday, July 20, 2015 - 03:23 pm:

Fuel valve shut off?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, July 20, 2015 - 03:25 pm:

I don't like that type of shut-off valve built in to the 90 deg. elbow,.....I like a union between the carburetor and the shut-off valve so as to be able to shut the fuel flow off and then remove the fuel line from the carb. With the set-up you've pictured, to remove the fuel line, you have to have a way to shut off fuel flow on the gas tank side of the valve,......and one way of course is to crawl under the car to shut off the fuel flow at the "potato". However, by your picture Steve, I still don't see "the obvious correction" you speak of,.......harold

P.S. Something tells me I'm going to feel stupid when you "enlighten" me!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, July 20, 2015 - 03:27 pm:

Tim & Kenny - you guys were typing (fast) while I was typing (slower).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, July 20, 2015 - 03:31 pm:

Tim & Kenny - you guys were typing (fast) while I was typing (slower).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, July 20, 2015 - 03:32 pm:

Oops!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Monday, July 20, 2015 - 03:33 pm:

Looks like the choke wire can get caught under that shut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Monday, July 20, 2015 - 03:38 pm:

Picture Steve posted shows the valve closed. Handle towards the fuel line is open.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, July 20, 2015 - 03:53 pm:

Alright Steve,.....yer play'n with us! No return spring on that bell crank to keep the hand choke wire from working its' way forward or something weird like that? Also, all that crap that seems to collect in the carburetor float bowl,.....might be that some of it is clogging up the narrow passage thru' that shut-off valve?

Obviously, something that has become "obvious" to you, is not "obvious" to me,....ha, ha,.....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, July 20, 2015 - 03:54 pm:

Ooooh,.......the suspense!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Monday, July 20, 2015 - 04:00 pm:

Harold - the valve was closed. Just told you that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, July 20, 2015 - 04:04 pm:

One thing which helps with water separation in the gas is to drain a little out of the sediment bulb from time to time. Water is heaver than gas, so it will settle to the bottom. It also settles to the bottom of the tank, so after the car has been setting for a while the water will be the first thing into the sediment bulb. A few drops of water is no problem, but if you get enough to fill the carburetor bowl, the car won't run. Sometimes it even happens in the gas station and when you fill your car with gas from that station, it will quit running. We had that happen on a tour. There were two gas stations near each other and some cars went to one station and the others went to another station. Our car quit running after being parked at an attraction on the tour. I drained the carb bowl and the fuel sediment bulb and the car ran fine after that. I found out that other cars which had gassed up at the same station had the same problem but those who went to the other station ran fine.

I have also forgotten to turn on the gas on occasion, so you are not alone in that problem.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, July 20, 2015 - 04:11 pm:

Oh! Okay,.....I knew I was gonna' feel stupid. I guess I can only say that it was so obvious that I missed it, even after you explained it Ron! But I can't quite visualize something that simple being responsible for all the trouble Steve has been having! I guess it was a combination of problems Steve had, compounded by that stupid shut-off valve! I guess that's another reason I don't like that type of valve,.....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Monday, July 20, 2015 - 04:26 pm:

Harold - the only reason I caught it is because I have that style valve on two of my doodlebugs and have fallen victim to them as Steve did.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Monday, July 20, 2015 - 05:46 pm:

Steve,

You may want to fill a can at the service station you buy gas at and check it out before you put it in your cars tank. You may be getting water directly from the service station tank.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, July 20, 2015 - 05:49 pm:

Well, after posting this I took the roadster when I went to town to pay the fertilizer bill and do some shopping. In at least half a dozen stops, I first tried restarting on MAG. In every case it was a no-go. When I switched to BAT the car started easily every time. So there's something still not quite right. Last week I was restarting most of the time with one pull on MAG. I still have some figuring-out to do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Monday, July 20, 2015 - 06:46 pm:

Make it easy on yourself, Steve, and start on the battery. None of us will tell Henry. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steven Thum on Monday, July 20, 2015 - 08:40 pm:

Been there, done that!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Monday, July 20, 2015 - 10:01 pm:

I forget to turn the gas on at least once a month Steve, so don't feel so bad!! I have a fairly long driveway, so by the time I do start on what's left in the bowl, warm it up a minute or two, it's died before I get halfway down the driveway and not out into the street. We don't have any traffic, so it really wouldn't matter that much.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, July 21, 2015 - 01:30 am:

Yeah, Mike, I can easily start on BAT. But it annoys me that I could start on MAG and now I can't. I've got to experiment more and see if I can figure it out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n Los Angeles CA on Tuesday, July 21, 2015 - 02:45 am:

Steve, why are you choking the engine in the summer time ???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, July 21, 2015 - 08:02 am:

I don't always shut my fuel valve off, but when I do, I leave the hood open to remind me that I need to turn it on before starting. But I don't use car covers on the T's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, July 21, 2015 - 08:26 am:

Habit, George. I just started on BAT a few times without choking. But starting on MAG is still a no-go, with or without.


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