Tire flaps

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Tire flaps
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By rick howerton on Wednesday, July 22, 2015 - 11:13 pm:

I tried installing flaps with no luck. installing the engine was less work. How about duet tape??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rand Ward Payson, Ut. on Wednesday, July 22, 2015 - 11:24 pm:

Duct tape is the handy mans secrete weapon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Wednesday, July 22, 2015 - 11:32 pm:

Two different things -

Flaps fit between the tire and inner tube.

Duct tape is a form of rim liner and shouldn't be confused with a flap.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard A Eddinger Sacrament Ca on Wednesday, July 22, 2015 - 11:39 pm:

Put flaps in all four tires on my 15 T with demountable wheels. They went in pretty easy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Doolittle on Wednesday, July 22, 2015 - 11:42 pm:

Gorilla Tape works better than duct tape. Sticks better and it stays stuck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Wednesday, July 22, 2015 - 11:47 pm:

Insert inner tube into tire with a fair amount of air, then install the flap around the inner tube. Now let most of the air out of the tube and install the tire on the rim. I hope this helps. U can do it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Wednesday, July 22, 2015 - 11:51 pm:

I use talcum powder to install the tire on the rim. I also put talcum in the tire before I install the tube and flap. I feel it's not as messy as soap and baby powder smells a lot better


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Thursday, July 23, 2015 - 12:00 am:

Actually, the flap goes between the tube and the wheel rim. You need to follow Hal's instructions and curve the flap around the inner tube. Partial inflation of the tube is important.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Thursday, July 23, 2015 - 12:21 am:

I've found after having a flap in a tire for a long time, they don't go back in as easy as a fresh one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Thursday, July 23, 2015 - 12:29 am:

Thanks Thomas.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, July 24, 2015 - 09:49 am:

How to install a flap:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWwkVM5ddSo


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Friday, July 24, 2015 - 10:52 am:

Please don't use duct tape. It deteriorates inside the rim just like it does if exposed to weather. Saw this 5 times on my '27. If you count the spare. Turns into a stringy mess that offers no protection. You'd be far better off using the real duct tape. The stuff HVAC guys use on heating ductwork. Aluminum tape with a paper backing. Doesn't come off, doesn't erode and covers rough surfaces quite well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Friday, July 24, 2015 - 11:32 am:

There is no way on earth any kind of tape will do the job a flap will!!!!!!! Bud in Wheeler,Mi.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Friday, July 24, 2015 - 11:40 am:

I agree but I've never had a big problem with installing flaps. "Course I've only done the 5 mentioned...Plenty of folks here have no use for them and some kind of protection is needed because of eroded/worn rims. Other linings have been suggested but it really should be some kind of inert material.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Mays on Friday, July 24, 2015 - 12:13 pm:

Looking at prices for flaps, they are $29.95 each. I've seen duct tape used but don't do that myself. I go to WalMart and buy bicycle inner tubes the right size, remove the stem (which leaves only a small round hole) then stretch the tube around the wheel before mounting the tire and tube. Does the same thing as a flap but at a price of around $6.00 per wheel rather than $30.00 wheel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Friday, July 24, 2015 - 12:23 pm:

I changed all the tires on my '17 runabout a couple years ago. The duct tape that my Dad installed in the 1950's was still in good shape. I replaced it with new tape anyway. The Wards Riverside tires were cracking and falling apart. I re - used the tubes with metal valve stems.

Ford never installed a single flap in any Model T Ford, ever. 15,000,000 plus cars, zero flaps.

I've never used them, and continue to wear tires completely out with no flat tires. I don't see any use in flaps.

Duct tape from the 1950's:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Friday, July 24, 2015 - 12:27 pm:

What are we talking about rim liners or tire flaps? Tape around the rim is a "rim liner flap"....a thick rubber flap between the tube and the inner tire bead surface is a "tire tube flap"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Friday, July 24, 2015 - 12:30 pm:

Also,theres a tire re-liner flaps that line the inside of the tire just to add to the confusion.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Friday, July 24, 2015 - 12:36 pm:

Ed,

The original question is what I answered. Tire flaps are the topic. I don't use them. I do use duct tape on the rim, as did my dad beginning in the early 1950's. The results of duct tape / no flaps have been outstanding.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Friday, July 24, 2015 - 01:32 pm:

I have been running flaps in our 1910 2cyl. REO since 1978 and no flats yet. Have used them in our 13 Touring for 15 yrs. and no flats except for one high pressure tube stem slow leak. Wrapped lock wire around the stem base which corrected the condition.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Friday, July 24, 2015 - 01:42 pm:

Ford never installed tires on rims that were rust pitted etc. I've had good luck with flaps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alby Anderson on Friday, July 24, 2015 - 03:55 pm:

I found the following videos helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWwkVM5ddSo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRyJYoIc7vs


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garrett F. on Saturday, July 25, 2015 - 11:04 pm:

I know this has been discussed on here before and I've posted it on here before, but it is fairly dangerous to drive a Model T with 50+ year old inner tubes. I know that the new tubes are crap, but the old, orange/red tubes don't handle heat too well. And any tube older than 25 years old should be changed out due to the risk of a blowout.

Just my $0.02. It's a very dangerous and risky thing to drive a Model T with tires and tubes older than 30 years old. Especially tubes because you can inspect tire casings, but to inspect tubes you have to deflate and take the whole assembly apart. But old tires (even the beloved Ward-Riverside) and tubes are just an accident (potentially deadly) waiting to happen.

It's not a matter of IF the old tubes and/or tires will blow, but more of a matter of WHEN.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Saturday, July 25, 2015 - 11:35 pm:

I disagree. I have seen original tubes as soft and durable as the day they were made, much stronger than the thin modern ones. The new tubes are more likely to blow out sooner than a good original tube, they are weaker in design and actually degrade faster.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n Los Angeles CA on Sunday, July 26, 2015 - 12:01 am:

I just had some Tires swapped on a couple rims. One rim was rotted out but ok for minimal spare service. Garry Stevens, owner?operator of Pico Wheel Service in Chatsworth,Ca and 50 years of experience repairing/truing/restoring wire wheels of all kinds says You don't need flaps and never use Duck Tape of any kind. He has been using and highly recommends Pipe Tape from you local Hardware store. He's been using it for over 25 years and won't use anything else. I copied the info he uses: Orbit 10 and 20 mil pipe tape. 10mil is stretchier and be careful of 10mil tape folding over on it's self. Pipe tap has a better adhesive than any duct tape.
George n L.A.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Sunday, July 26, 2015 - 10:09 am:

I never used flaps either, until the Firestone tires went to New Zealand. When I installed them, the third set of tires for the car, I got a flat after fifty miles on a hot day. I replaced the tube with a new one, and didn't go far until I had another flat. I replaced that one too, and it blew too. Finally I quit and loaded the car on the trouble truck. I've used flaps ever since, with no problems.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Eliason Whittier, CA on Sunday, July 26, 2015 - 10:22 am:

Yesterday at the Long Beach swap meet I watched a friend working to give away a set of flaps. A lot of knowing smiles and No-Thank-You's, finally one 'Oh, OK'.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Sunday, July 26, 2015 - 10:51 am:

All of the early treatises on tires recommend flaps so there must be some benefit to using them. If nothing else they reduce the chances of pinching a tube when installing them and that is true for all types, clinchers, split rims and drop center. I would never use a split rim without a flap, always use them for clinchers too but rarely consider them worth the extra cost on wire wheels but, like chicken soup, they may not help but they sure don't hurt!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Sunday, July 26, 2015 - 10:58 am:

Will knowing smiles and no-thank-you's keep a tube from trying to get under a tire bead?? Will a knowing smile keep you from pinching a tube?? True,Ford did not use flaps,but should they have used them?? Bud in Wheeler,Mich.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Sunday, July 26, 2015 - 11:12 am:

Tire flaps offered no benefit to Ford. They would have added cost to every car. They would not have improved quality or reliability in any way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garrett F. on Sunday, July 26, 2015 - 11:34 am:

Ed, Since I don't own a T/A myself, I can't speak for it from experience. But in my very humble opinion, i really wouldn't trust my life on 40+ year old tires and inner tubes. The new tubes may be bad quality, but as I said - with the 40+ year old tubes (and especially tires if they're cracked or rotting), it's not a matter of IF, but more of a matter of WHEN will they blow.

Any car with rotting or cracked tires, or tires where you can see the inner tube, is not a car that should be driven until new tires come in (unless you drive really slow.) I see it all the time with Model T'ers and A'ers, and quite honestly I'm surprised we haven't seen more deaths caused by old tires + highway speeds.

And I know the orange/red/white tubes were the "originals" or from the 1930s and such, but you don't want to use those either. They don't handle heat too well and when you drive, the friction causes heat which (in a sense) "melts" the rubber of the tube and causes a blowout.

I'm not posting this here to argue or anything about "should I use 40+ year old tires and tubes" but I just don't want to see on the news where a Model T driver/Model A driver got killed because they were driving on 50 year old tires. Any tire older than 30 years old should not be driven on, at least at speeds over 25 MPH.

I know, the old tires "preserve" the look of your Model T, and more so of a Model A. And some people are too cheap to buy new tires and tubes. But is it really worth your life?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Sunday, July 26, 2015 - 01:06 pm:

I experienced a flat with a really old front tire (and tube) some days ago. Note I have 21" tires, no experience with clinchers. It wasn't dramatic in any way, the only way it was felt was that the wheel started bouncing more than usual at high speed (50 mph?) Bad asphalt I thought, slowed down some and kept on driving for several more miles until I left off a friend by his house - then I saw the tire was practically empty. Put on the spare - ouch,it had a cord damage from the high heat of the exhaust nearby, so I drove very slowly the rest of the way home, but I'm no more afraid of getting another flat since I now know it's not likely to be dramatic in any way.

I put fresh tires on but kept the old tube after putting on a patch - it's still in good condition and has the dynabeads that makes my wheels so smooth at speed.

A tail pipe now deflects the exhaust from the spare so the new spare tire will hold up better..

And of course I used flaps - Ford put flaps in all 21" split rims.

Clinchers may be different, they can leave the rim with a sudden blown tube, I think.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan George Long on Monday, July 27, 2015 - 07:03 am:

There still appears to be a great deal of confusion about the definition of a rim flap amongst our posters.

The rim liner as I understand it is approximately 2" wide and a snug fit on the rim to protect the tube. Some folk use gaffa tape or an old tube section as the liner while others don't use anything.

Some of the utube links shows a much wider rubber section that is also installed between the rim and the tube.

Others claim the flap fits between the tube and the tyre to add extra protection against punctures.

Can someone please explain the definitions in a clear and concise way? I'm confused and only see the need for a " rim liner" being 2" wide and a snug fit on the steel rim!

Cheers. Alan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Monday, July 27, 2015 - 08:38 am:

Tire Flaps:
Those really wide "thingies" that fit INSIDE the tire carcass BEFORE the tire is mounted on the rim.
https://www.google.com/search?q=tire+flap+picture&espv=2&biw=1326&bih=884&source =lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAmoVChMI3PmF96f7xgIVSCweCh3p8QLu

Rim liner:
the skinny "thingy" that is stretched around the rim ...old inner tube, bicycle tire, Gorilla tape, masking tape, duct tape, whatever you use (or don't use)
https://www.google.com/search?q=rim+liner&espv=2&biw=1326&bih=884&source=lnms&tb m=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAmoVChMIjpXbxaj7xgIVSl0eCh341wTy
(please IGNORE those wide flaps in the images...even Google got that wrong.

Rim liners help prevent sharp spoke edges from puncturing the tube.
Some say flaps add strength to the tire sidewall, but more importantly, help prevent the tube from working its way between the tire edges and becoming pinched, AND help[s keep the tire irons away from the tube.

Different things for different purposes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Monday, July 27, 2015 - 08:45 am:

I suppose just like the poor will always be with us, so too, will the confusion of flaps and liners.
In this thread

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/215641.html?1307320620

please notice the period ad posted by Dan T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Syverson on Monday, July 27, 2015 - 09:04 am:

Ford never had to install tires and rims made in Vietnam on his wheels. I think its a good idea to use flaps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Monday, July 27, 2015 - 09:16 am:

Better pictures of rim liners without the distraction of the eye liners...

https://www.google.com/search?q=rim+liner&espv=2&biw=1326&bih=884&source=lnms&tb m=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAmoVChMIjpXbxaj7xgIVSl0eCh341wTy#tbm=isch&tbs=rimg%3ACf S2NsK2tVI0IjjViiCmIqLbDRfWWq15WL-UUitODPKRDSq3RwAws06FvuIc_1e60Cyb_1uMljAYatraj5 Ahwhx2EK8CoSCdWKIKYiotsNEf5DvN3Y0ZcYKhIJF9ZarXlYv5QRPo1obiRaelwqEglSK04M8pENKhEh UdTz6Vi3JyoSCbdHADCzToW-EYxsSifSxLuSKhIJ4hz97rQLJv8RAjnAf7pb6-YqEgm4yWMBhq2tqBFZ zBeo4q-_12SoSCfkCHCHHYQrwEXa9NDXNUd0c&q=rim%20liner


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Monday, July 27, 2015 - 09:50 am:

A flap cradles the inner tube - it goes between the inner tube and and continues past each bead between the tube and tire. My original post was not clear enough.

A rim liner is exactly what the name implies - it goes directly on the rim.

As far as "sharp spoke edges puncturing the tube" is concerned, this could never happen with a wood spoke wheel because there is a felloe between the spoke and the rim, regardless if it is a demountable wheel (clincher or balloon) or a non-demountable wheel.

If spokes are the only concern, rim flaps are required with non-demountable wire wheels where the spoke nipple is exposed on the rim. The best example if this is my Schwinn bicycle which has rim liners to keep the tube from chafing against the spoke nipples.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, July 27, 2015 - 10:42 am:

When you think about it,there was so much tire trouble in the early days some cars had built in air compressors.Bud in Wheeler,Mi.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Prince Madras, Oregon on Monday, July 27, 2015 - 09:40 pm:

I your rims are rust pitted what I do is clean them up and then paint the rims with 4 or 5 coats of rubberized paint like the primer for Snow Roof rubber roofing, I have been doing this for years and have had no flats from the tube rubbing on the rim.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Monday, July 27, 2015 - 10:12 pm:

If you use them and like them, don't leave home without them. If you've gone four or five decades without them and have had no trouble, don't start using them now.


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