Auxiliary Transmission Gear Shift Leaking

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Auxiliary Transmission Gear Shift Leaking
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ginny Andrews on Tuesday, July 28, 2015 - 01:15 pm:

I have a 1925 Model T truck with an auxiliary transmission. There is a lot of oil leaking from where the rods protrude from the unit and move in and out as it goes from gear to gear. But it does not look like regular motor oil, because it's brown and very fluid. Here is a photo. Auxiliary transmission leaks brown fluid It makes sense to me that there should be grease in the gear shift mechanism, but I don't see any way to add any. My father passed away in 2008, and I have not changed any lubrication specifically of the auxiliary transmission since then. The last regular oil change was done in April 2015, and I used 30W non-detergent. Anyone have any info or advice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ginny Andrews on Tuesday, July 28, 2015 - 01:18 pm:

Sorry the photo is so large, I'm a newbie.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Tuesday, July 28, 2015 - 01:54 pm:

The brown is almost certainly rust. I'm not aware of any lubricant that color. Depending on the brand of transmission, it may have both a drain plug on the bottom and a fill plug on the side of the transmission. If mine, I would drain and flush the transmission to get rid of any moisture and as much of the rust as possible. Kerosene or other solvent could be used for the flush and then the transmission should be filled to the bottom of the fill hole with good gear lube. Opinions vary for the best viscosity, I prefer modern 85/140 weight gear oil. If the person who did the regular oil change isn't prepared to do this for you, I'd be checking in with a nearby T club for advice and assistance regarding someone to do the work. The local T club should become a primary source of advice and support. Of course you are always welcome here too, it's just that long distance wrench turning can be a bit difficult. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Tuesday, July 28, 2015 - 03:13 pm:

Ginny,
I can't say with certainty, but your auxiliary transmission appears to be a Muncie. Mine weeps a little oil too, same place your does. I imagine I'll leak a little too when I'm over 90 years old. :-)

Walt gives good advice all the way around. Clean it out and put fresh lube oil in it. IMHO the best way to do it thoroughly would be to remove the shifter tower so you can see and reach the guts. It's only 4 bolts and it just lifts straight up. This way you can easily clean the shifter forks too. The cleaner the better.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Tuesday, July 28, 2015 - 04:02 pm:

My mark E does the same thing, decided to just add oil then think of a fix. What little oil comes out coats the underside rear and helps with coastal rust. If I were going to stop it a pan with turned up sides would hold the oil between the transmission case and the cover if it was bolted between them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob on Texas Gulf Coast on Tuesday, July 28, 2015 - 04:05 pm:

Have you pulled the top off to be sure there is not water inside the case?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Wednesday, July 29, 2015 - 01:05 am:

Ok, I'll tell you how I fixed this problem with my original alum Warford.

Take the top off and remove the shifter rods. Counterbore the each hole back about 1/4" just large enough for a copper tube with a cap soldered on to fit in. Reinstall the shifter rods and slide the copper tubing over it checking for any interference when shifting. Apply some adhesive if needed to hold the tubing in place.

I copied this fix from the famous Ed Archer's #4 after seeing his on a tour one day on the Cal Coast.

Works Perfect! You might also install a small plug on the side where the cotter pin for the dedent is.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ginny Andrews on Saturday, August 01, 2015 - 12:12 pm:

Sorry I took so long to answer. We were in transit home. The T lives in Iowa and I live in Raleigh, NC, so it's a long distance relationship. Since my father passed, I have been doing the work myself, except for when I recored the radiator. I did take the radiator out, but then I took it to an expert to put in the new core.

Anyway, I believe the transmission is a Muncie. I have looked at examples in some of the Model T parts catalogs, it looks like a Muncie. It's stamped "Wards Gear Shift". So, does anyone know where Wards got their Model T gear shifts from?

Walt, wouldn't there have to be water in the transmission for there to be rust? Dad never left the T out of the garage. Because he was so protective, I have never left it outside either. How would water have gotten into the transmission?

But whether it's rust or not, it makes sense to drain the transmission. I will definitely do that, and also look into the gear shift tower. There IS a drain plug on the bottom, Also, I think I saw a fill plug on the side. I am going to attach a photo. Please let me know if that is the fill plug you are talking about.


Fill Plug Auxiliary Transmission

Now that leads me to another question. What I am thinking is a fill plug looks too low to be what is affecting the actual gear shift mechanism. How does the transmission fluid get moved around? Or is that not a fill plug?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, August 01, 2015 - 01:10 pm:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/531109.html?1428284928


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Saturday, August 01, 2015 - 01:14 pm:

Unless there's one on the other side you can bet that's the fill. It doesn't take much gear oil to lube all the gears once I all starts spinning.
Some aux tranny guys will add an extension pipe with a vent on top to relieve any pressure build inside.

If I were you I'd pop the top cover after draining the oil and give it a good clean/inspecting. Add some quality modern gear oil and you'll be good to go.


Your moisture could be a little condensate from the "nice" Ia. weather. If looks ok and it's been running ok I wouldn't worry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Saturday, August 01, 2015 - 03:50 pm:

Unfortunately, it seems to me that removing the shift/top cover is no easy matter. Involves removing or lifting the body and/or removing the transmission. Perhaps cutting a hunk out of the body. I dread the thought of working on my Warfords installed in several vehicles.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Sunday, August 02, 2015 - 01:54 am:

Ya, John that's no option. I can pull the top of my Warford with the floor boards out but many can't. Sounds like a simple drain, maybe a flush and a refill then drive it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Sunday, August 02, 2015 - 11:40 pm:

With that rust coming out I'd say drain, fill with cheap motor oil or ATF, drive a mile or two, drain, refill with 85-140 or any other gear oil you may have or can buy cheap. Then drain it again in a month or so.
Leave that junk in there much longer and it may ruin the gears and bearings.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Monday, August 03, 2015 - 02:15 am:

With that rust coming out I'd say drain, fill with cheap motor oil or ATF, drive a mile or two, drain, refill with 85-140 or any other gear oil you may have or can buy cheap. Then drain it again in a month or so.
Leave that junk in there much longer and it may ruin the gears and bearings.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ginny Andrews on Friday, October 23, 2015 - 01:10 pm:

Does anyone know the quantity of oil that would fill a Muncie auxiliary transmission?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthony J. Marino - League City, Texas on Friday, October 23, 2015 - 02:25 pm:

Fill it until it overflows from that fill plug in your photo above.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Archer Hayward, CA. on Friday, October 23, 2015 - 04:48 pm:

Evidently Muncie also made their transmissions for Monkey Wards. With no Muncie I.D. and just the wards name on them. I have one and it's a Muncie throughout except the name cast into the body. And yes the top comes off easy by just removing the four bolts. When putting it back on just make sure that the 2 forks that hang down go into the proper grooves in the gears and you're all set.

Ed aka#4


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Friday, October 23, 2015 - 09:26 pm:

Hey Ed, You should also tell her about your very cool trick you showed me to eliminate the oil leaking from those shifter rods.
Still working perfect, Thanks Again!


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