So here is how I see oil slingers

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: So here is how I see oil slingers
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tyrone Thomas - Topeka KS on Thursday, July 30, 2015 - 10:21 pm:

At the speed of the flywheel turning either at a low rpm and/or especially high rpm, the thrown oil cannot return to the oil pan fast enough, raising the oil level in the pan, for the slingers to be more than slightly efficient at best. What do you think?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Thursday, July 30, 2015 - 10:44 pm:

Take the access cover off the hogs head and run the engine. You can then watch and make an informed decision .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerome Hoffman, Hays Kansas on Thursday, July 30, 2015 - 11:08 pm:

Ted, your mean.......lol


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Thursday, July 30, 2015 - 11:58 pm:

I see them as more of a problem than a solution. They are prone to breaking or coming loose causing big problems. Churning the oil causes foaming which is not a good thing. A bare flywheel combined with a Texas T style H/V outside oil line flows a lot of oil up front where its needed.
I have been running my model T for over 15 years with no magnets or slingers using a 1/2" outside oil line and no bearing adjustments or problems to date. Several friends are also running the same set up with no bearing problems.
A friend had a slinger break which broke the hogs head, dented up the pan and jammed the engine. Part of a slinger was sticking thru a hole in the hogs head.
No thanks Guy's.....you will never catch me using any stinking slingers!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Friday, July 31, 2015 - 12:05 am:

What about dippers?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jeff cordes on Friday, July 31, 2015 - 12:11 am:

I'm with les


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Friday, July 31, 2015 - 12:38 am:

How long have you been with Les ? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Friday, July 31, 2015 - 01:10 am:

Larry....a big difference in the amount of oil that a flywheel is running in vice trying to keep sufficient oil in the cover for dippers to scope.

A good friend who's name is also "Larry" had one of Joe Morris's crankshafts break several years ago. He replaced the crankshaft with a Scat crank. I told him to get rid of the slingers and install a Texas H/V outside oil line kit. He did as I recommended but installed a piece of clear plastic hose in part of the oil line to see how much oil was flowing up front. He was skeptical about removing the slingers and wanted to be able to see for him self how much oil flowed up front.

After he started his engine....he called me and was very excited about the large volume of oil he could see flowing thru the clear plastic hose.
He is very happy that he followed my advice on removing the slingers and installing the H/V Texas oil line kit. What more can I say?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan McEachern on Friday, July 31, 2015 - 01:35 am:

This is no different that a lot of other poorly designed aftermarket parts that are available today. Properly designed slingers made out of the correct material that can be securely attached will never be problematic. Just sayin. Also, it is hard for me to understand how slingers can churn the oil and cause foaming and the stock magnets don't. ??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Friday, July 31, 2015 - 02:10 am:

Dan,
It's my belief that stock magnets would also churn the oil and cause foaming. Depending on magnets or slingers to force enough oil up front to keep rod bearings adequately lubed is a dream in my mind. They are located on the back side of the flywheel facing the transmission.
If magnets are adequate....why do number one and two rod bearing fail the most? In my mind...the answer is oil starvation.

However, I don't understand how the Montana 500 model T's stay together either.....I have a lot to learn and not enough years left to do it all.

I also use synthetic oil which is advertised to foam less than conventional oil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Friday, July 31, 2015 - 08:26 am:

Les VonNordheim,
Interesting to hear of someone running (ran) a Joe Morris crank....I am still running one. I wonder how many were made? What was "Larry's" experience?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Friday, July 31, 2015 - 08:44 am:

Well, I guess someone is going to have to cast a hogshead out of clear plexiglas and settle this dispute once and for all :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Friday, July 31, 2015 - 08:52 am:

Maybe...

But this would be more frugal (in keeping with the T philosophy)---make do with what you have.

Doesn't everyone have a spare piece of plexiglas in their shop?

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/67996.html?1223329722

R.I.P RD

(Message edited by adave on July 31, 2015)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, July 31, 2015 - 09:13 am:

did that with a sheet of glass held against the inspection opening. Demonstrates how the Oil Screen diverts a small flow to the screen. At starting idle, just flows heavy, at faster idle, the flow gets real shallow to the screen (you can see the mesh).....

So my little test shows most of the oil is slung around the hogshead sides and goes to the crankcase sump! Oh...at higher RPM the glass plate was covered with oil splash and no more looking :-)

You Tube Video, Oil Screen testing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k04SQCpuxWw&index=3&list=UU1h0wEWNCt1_R2AAdzMNRE Q


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tyrone Thomas - Topeka KS on Friday, July 31, 2015 - 02:59 pm:

Dan I believe you have proven my point for the most part. I contend that in order for the slingers to work as advertised, they have to run in deep oil. To have oil to scoop up to throw.

Once the engine starts and rpms are increased, thus throwing oil throughout the engine, thus lowering the oil level in the pan, there is less oil in the pan to be scooped up by the slinger. At best the slinger are just scraping the surface of the remaining oil level. The returning oil cannot return in sufficient amounts fast enough to provide the depth of oil the swinger need to work as efficient. Yes all this time the ring rear and flywheel is throwing oil but in lesser amounts as you have shown. That's just my point.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Friday, July 31, 2015 - 04:14 pm:

Let's reinvent the Model T; drill our cranks; make custom oil pans; and pressurize our engines to solve the problem. Oh Hell, let's just run what Henry did and forget about things until we have a problem. Then repair the problem, or start over with a new rebuild.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tyrone Thomas - Topeka KS on Friday, July 31, 2015 - 06:10 pm:

I agree Terry, Fix it until its broke.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, July 31, 2015 - 06:54 pm:

Tyrone

There is 1 gallon of oil in the T sump, unless its low.

A very lot of the oil does sink there and stay.

That is way more than enough for any slinger on the rim of the flywheel to add to the flipping of oil all around. The Ford flywheel/magnets do a good job too!





As for magnet less flywheel in a speedster, an early flywheel without ring gear perhaps needs slingers added. Agree with earlier posts that outside oil line will help with the mains and rods! The trans will always get lots!




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Friday, July 31, 2015 - 08:34 pm:

John McGinnis,
Lee Pierce also had a Joe Morris crankshaft break.
Both Larry's and Lee's broke with in the last 5 years. In both cases....they were lucky and the rear web was not damaged. Another local friend that is still running a Joe Morris crankshaft purchased a new Scat crankshaft several months ago.

Others,
A bare flywheel with ring gear moves sufficient oil to the hogs head where the Texas T style out side oiler is mounted. That is why the H/V outside oil line works so great. There is still a lot of oil flying around the transmission for adequate oiling. Installing one with a clear plastic hose in the 1/2" oil line will provide a visual indication of how much oil is flowing up front. If you do not trust what is seen in the clear plastic hose, simply remove the line where it enters the pan and with a catch can see how quickly it will empty the pan. Does not get much simpler than that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Friday, July 31, 2015 - 08:43 pm:

When you are viewing the oil through the plexiglass your car is sitting still in your garage. When your driving the car it is moving down the highway and the oil is sloshing around and more of it will be pushed into the oil tubes and not just lying in the oil sump.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, August 01, 2015 - 11:09 am:

It is a good idea to have the oil sling all over the engine and transmission as soon as possible after starting the engine. After that, don't worry about it. If the oil is all over the engine and transmission, it is doing it's work and whatever oil drains back into the sump will be slung around the engine again. Now if you are trying to build a speedster, and will continually be driving at very high speed, maybe you do need to drill for oil pressure, but for the type of driving the T was intended to do, the oil system has worked fine for over 100 years. I don't think it is the oil system which causes broken crankshafts. It is lugging the engine and driving with the crankshaft out of alignment caused by sagging transmission, or possibly manufacturing defects which cause weak points in the crankshaft.
Norm


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