Dispointed

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Dispointed
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By rick howerton on Saturday, August 01, 2015 - 07:32 pm:

I put in a rebuilt engine in my 27 touring that I just spent the last 2 years building from the ground up. Went to adjust the bands and when I took the cover led off, and found band material all inside. Looks like cotton bands, I have a oil screen all stopped up. I new set of kevlars to put in, just my luck. I wonder what else wasn't done that I paid $2,600 for. Any clean up ideas?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Saturday, August 01, 2015 - 07:52 pm:

Rick
1. I have run cotton bands for many many years with no problems
2. I have seen a LOT of drums destroyed by Kevlar bands, especially reverse and low
3. I do use Kevlar band but ONLY on the transmission brake

So I'm not sure what has caused your problem. What are the drum surfaces like?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By rick howerton on Saturday, August 01, 2015 - 08:08 pm:

I haven`t taken the bands out yet to look at the drums. This engine was supposed to have new bands. This engine has 10 min. run time since rebuild. The builder didn`t like cotton.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By rick howerton on Saturday, August 01, 2015 - 08:17 pm:

Do you think I could take a shop vac and clean up all the fuz and go with the cotton. or is it going to keep coming apart?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Saturday, August 01, 2015 - 08:25 pm:

A friend of mine had the same experience when he put kevlar's in. He said it looked like a mouse next got built in the screen. Never figured out why it did that, but we cleaned it out, and then checked it again after about 10 miles and there was more, but much less. Eventually, it stopped producing the fuzz and he kept on motoring. Just make sure you put an accessory oil line from the mag pick up to the front cover.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - Melbourne Florida on Saturday, August 01, 2015 - 08:30 pm:

Its not unusual to have some band material in the engine area with cotton bands as they wear in. I have Norwegian cotton bands in my car and I have to clean the filter every 100 miles or so.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Saturday, August 01, 2015 - 08:35 pm:

Cleaning out all the fuzz is certainly the first thing to do followed immediately by slowly rotating the engine while observing the drums and checking for cracks. Major fuzz is way wrong on only a limited run time. You are going to need to ensure that the internal and any external oil lines are clear of the fuzz too before running the motor again. I strongly suspect a cracked or otherwise bad drum surface as the only way to shred bands in 10 minutes. Is it possible the fuzz is from a rag or paper towel accidentally left in the motor?

I would remove the transmission cover and the lower pan inspection plate to clean as much as possible of this stuff out of the motor. I'd also be asking the rebuilder what type of bands were installed. I've successfully used wood and Kevlar linings as well as some older linings that had some brass wire woven into them. I was disappointed with the Scandinavian bands from about 10 or 15 years ago.

You need to find the source of the problem and correct it before you drive this car. Once found, I'd also be discussing the problem and any possible compensation with the rebuilder.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, August 01, 2015 - 08:40 pm:

Some Kevlar sold doesn't have glued edges.

Those can shed fibers, esp. if the drums are used.

10 min. run time is unusual, unless all 10 min. were in low gear to have much shedding.

Best is Kevlar with sealed ends. Crazy Glue is the thing to use as sealer.

P.S. You can't add glue to used oily Kevlar linings!




Kevlar linings without sealed ends.


Kevlar sealed ends


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Saturday, August 01, 2015 - 08:42 pm:

You could easily crack a drum in 10 minutes run time. Please inspect the drums


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Saturday, August 01, 2015 - 09:27 pm:

Rick, if you do decide to pull the lower inspection cover, you can use an air hose to blow out the internal oil line to make sure its not clogged.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By rick howerton on Saturday, August 01, 2015 - 09:34 pm:

I think these bands weren`t checked. I`m going to pull those and put Kevlar in, and check for cracks on the drums. I`m also going to dump the oil and check the inspection cover on oil pan. I`m also going tohave words with a certain builder!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, August 01, 2015 - 09:43 pm:

Be sure to set the bands loose so that the are tight just before the pedal touches the floor. Put the parking lever in neutral and turn the hand crank. The car should not roll while cranking. Then try pushing the car by hand. The engine should not turn. After you drive the car a few miles you might need to tighten up the bands just half a turn or so. Kevlar is very unforgiving if it is too tight. It will get hot and crack the drums.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By rick howerton on Sunday, August 02, 2015 - 12:13 am:

Thanks for all the help and pictures. I used the shop vac around the bands. Next I`ll drop the pan cover and clean. I`ll blow out the inside and outside oil lines.I agree about Kevlar getting to hot. Thank you all of my friends!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Sunday, August 02, 2015 - 06:57 pm:

Rick

Update on the photos in this thread showing the new Kevlar in my '27.

Today I changed the oil and checked the oil screen, its been 900 mi. since the Kevlar lining was new. (odometer reading)

What was in the oil screen



Some light fuzz, mostly dirt or fine debris from the oil. The screen is a nice thing for the T, as there is no oil filter.




Here is what the sealed ends of the Kevlar look like now, and the linings are now well soaked in oil.

The brake band is set somewhat loose as it only comes on after I press real hard, as have Rocky Mtn. brakes on the rear wheels that do the main stopping work.

And after cleaning the screen, picked out what looks like some hardened gasket cement pieces or maybe some thick breakaway of the red insulating paint from the engine insides that the oil system slung up into the screen.


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