12 volt for starting

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: 12 volt for starting
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Sunday, August 02, 2015 - 03:33 pm:

A quick question.
We swapped the motor in the non-starter 19 with a starter equipped 26 motor.
Since the 26 is really tight and hard to crank I have decided (after numerous discussions) to use a 12 volt battery for the 6 volt starter.
I will not be using a generator or alternator.
When I used the battery to power the coils during starting (cranking only) it made no difference if the ground was negative or positive.

I know this has been discussed before.
Now that I have a starter, I assume that the ground should be positive or the starter will spin the wrong direction,
Am I correct?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Sunday, August 02, 2015 - 03:45 pm:

Model T's are negative ground. When using 12V, be aware that the starter shaft will flex and the drive will touch the cover. Periodically you should check that the cover screws stay tight or you could develop a leak that will cost you an engine. If you have a 26 engine, why not use a generator?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Sunday, August 02, 2015 - 04:05 pm:

The starter will turn the same direction independent of the polarity of the connection.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Sunday, August 02, 2015 - 04:18 pm:

Erik.

I have been thru all the discussions about 12V - 6V generator etc. and am going to use the 12 V battery without a generator. Someday we are going to put the origional 19 motor back in and it will be without a starter and generator. The starter is only temporary because the 26 motor is not as easy to start as the 19 was.

John. - thanks. That makes life easier.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly Montana on Sunday, August 02, 2015 - 08:10 pm:

Fred, I run 12v on my T and use a neg. ground. The thing that will really get the starter is to not move the spark lever up before starting. Good way to break bendix bolts or spring. I carry a spare of each. PK


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Sunday, August 02, 2015 - 09:59 pm:

Are you sure your motor is a '19? I thought all or nearly all '19s were starter motors with or without actual starters. Any hint on what your motor number is? Maybe it is earlier.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Sunday, August 02, 2015 - 10:11 pm:

You need to use a skinny 12 volt modern cable about 6 ft long to give you enough voltage drop so you don't slam the Bendix. On my 24 I used long skinny cables for both ground and positive .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Sunday, August 02, 2015 - 11:00 pm:

John, you say the starter won't turn backwards?
hOW COME WHEN I PUT MY BATTERY IN BACKWARDS and turn the lights on in the daytime it gets dark in front of my car?

Fred, go ahead and use the 6 volt generator, they don't know voltage. The generator will charge the 12 volt battery just fine. Not that you really need it though.
I used my car several years without a battery, even though I ran a distributor and used the starter a lot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Sunday, August 02, 2015 - 11:40 pm:

There is no need for a 12v battery IF your car has good wiring. There is also no need to ground your T backwards!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Monday, August 03, 2015 - 01:37 am:

I believe a 1919 car with no starter would have block off plates where the starter and bendix cover would go. I have seen 19 engines either with a block off plate for the generator or a casting that goes in place of the generator mount to use the non generator timing cover. Maybe not everyone was ready for a starter on the T and the extra expense in 1919.
Fred, I think you might really like having a starter on your T. May I suggest that when you build your 1919 engine you be sure to put in a transmission with a ring gear? That way you can put a starter on any time you like, and a car of that year would be authentic so equipped.
I don't build any T engines without a ring gear. If you chose not to use it, no one can see it in your early T. I am doing quite a bit of business fitting early T's with starters for people who can no longer crank them, and for their kids who are scared of the crank. We don't make any changes to the car that can't be reversed. For us, it's all about putting folks on the road in model T's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Monday, August 03, 2015 - 11:22 am:

The 19 motor is original to the 19 hack and it has never been rebuilt.
I have the 1919 registration with the motor number and a complete history of the car.

The head was taken off and replaced in the 50's by my dad.

It has the block off plates but was never equipped with a starter or generator.
It was easy to start with the crank and I got numerous free starts - most likely because it was a bit loose.

I switched the motor because I was afraid of messing up the original one.
The horror stories about two piece valves etc. kept me awake at night.

I found that the 26 was almost impossible to start with the crank but it only took about a foot to start when we towed it.
I am thinking that the starter will be a bit like a tow and make life easier until I get he 19 motor back in the car.

I will do as Ted suggests and use a long cable.
I figure that if I wrap it around the drive shaft a few times I can set up an electric field that will charge the magnets in the mag.
The only problem will be determining if I wind it clockwise or counterclockwise.

After all, I don't want to make time to go backwards - or do I?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, August 03, 2015 - 12:13 pm:

Fred,

I think you'll find that after a short run-in time, the motor will loosen up and start just fine on 6V. Maybe just use 12V for the first several starts & drives. 50 miles, or even less, of driving should have it loosened up nicely.


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