I ended up having to run into town twice yesterday. The first run was to the metal recycling (goodby Rockwell, old table saw friend of 30 years!) the second one was back into Grass Valley for home repairs again. After the first 20 mile trip I jumped into Rusty and just for giggles I grabbed the fuel can, it was full of a varnish which had been sitting in the tank of my motorcycle since I towed it home well over a year ago, and set off on the second 20 mile trip. I had been so frustrated with that bike that I put into the shed until I had time to look at it... not realizing that would be over a year later! (note for curious: sheared cam sprocket bolts can prevent noise from coming out of a motorcycle)

Well, y'all saw this one coming, half way between home and the filling station Rusty sputtered to a halt. Having little choice the varnish I grabbed as an insurance policy was duly emptied into the tank of poor unsuspecting Rusty. A spin of the crank (dead generator so I try not to use the battery if I don't have to) and I was off to replenish the fuel in the tank.

Why am I relating this? It seems that this gives me a chance to compare Rusty's performance on Modern fuel and year old varnish which used to be fuel.

In the morning Rusty was his old self, a bit rough running, lots of low pedal on the back road to the land fill, difficult starting on the crank. My plan had been to use that nasty old fuel a little at a time as a dillutant (pollutant) topping off a tank of new fuel in the T. Much to my surprise a tank running "pure" one year old varnish allowed the engine to start up easier. The engine ran stronger and made it to the fill station without any missing, bucking , snorting or rough running I had become accustomed to! Amazing!

So what do I do next? To the two gallons of varnish in my tank I added 6 gallons of modern unleaded low test California summer blend. (This is a concoction of gasoline, alcohol, additives, dillutants, detergents, and snail snot which is all that is available in California).

One pull on the crank and he started right up (remember the carb bowl still had varnish in it!) but be the time I got to the street Rusty was back to the old marginal running performance. I was able to think about this for quite a time as I needed to low pedal it most of the way into town.

My question for all of you is why should fuel left to sit more than a year in a half filled (half empty) tank without the addition of stabilizer work better in a model T Ford than fresh "fuel"?

My T is pretty stock except for a Z head. I am running a Stipe stock grind, standard coil ignition with an Anderson timer, aluminum pistons, stock exhaust, and stock 1927 Holley Vaporizer carburator on magneto power.

I was afraid that the T wouldn't run on that stale old fuel, but it really shocked me that it ran better than when fresh fuel was used. The old fuel was also a summer blend of the same grade from about a year ago. ... weird!

What say you?

TH

Not weird. Go to www.pure-gas.org

I didn't think it was possible to wear out a Rockwell table saw.

Shhh! They might be listening. Remember, it is not paranoia if they really are out to get you. Almost everything as a result of Califunny dirty politics is fraudulent and a conspiracy to steal your money or make you responsible for crimes you did not commit.

Before moving to this area about ten years ago, I had a 1965 Ford 3/4 ton pickup that I drove for work for 17 years. I hate to think of how much gasoline (and money) went through that tank, as I put over a half million miles on that truck in those 17 years.
The truck had a 17 gallon gasoline tank, and when I first got it, would go more than 220 miles on a tankful (over 13 mpg). Only one time, did mileage ever improve, when I replaced the tired old engine with one that I had rebuilt myself. That time, the mileage went back up about 1 mpg, less than half what I had lost in the previous 5 years. The thing I always found most interesting, was that all the drops in performance and economy were like steps, not gradual declines. While these sudden drops occurred numerous times over the years, the most extreme was when a major change was made to gasoline formulation. The state PROMISED that any drop in mileage or performance would be very minor if even noticeable. At that time, I had a regular run to a system customer we took care of, almost exactly 75 miles each way from our shop to their door. For years, I had filled the tank at the station two blocks from the shop, driven down and back, plus 30 miles home, and almost enough gas to return to the shop. The one day change (that was supposed to be barely noticeable) was that I could not even complete the 150 mile round trip on a tank of gas, and almost got stuck in the middle of NOWHERE! I barely made it to a gasoline station only because I happened to know where one was, and the gasoline splashed onto the dry bottom of the very empty tank. From about 200 miles to the tankful to barely over 140 miles to the tankful in one day (a more than 25 percent drop), with a similar loss of top speed and performance.
Yes gasoline in Califunny is garbage with all the unknown stuff and fillers they put in it. The alcohol absorbs water from the air and creates strings of watery crud that plugs carburetor jets. The pressure from injectors seems to push it through, but anything with a carburetor relying on air flow seems to have troubles.
Terry, it would seem from your experience that maybe some of that crud evaporates out leaving something akin to real gasoline? Thank you for the report. Sorry for my lengthy diatribe.
I wonder if we could determine a temperature at which this lousy stuff could be altered more quickly or effectively?
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2

Does the octane rating drop off with old fuel and if it does could it be the answer to your experience? Everyone says the fuel was c**p back then and old gas might be closer to what was available in Ye olde days.

Wayne that's very interesting reading. We might get ripped off for our Fuel price in NZ ($8 a us gallon) but at least it is usually the same quality no matter where or when you buy it. When they first took lead out years ago there was a few teething issues. One problem that has stuck is it goes stale so i try to run a mower/boat/car etc dry before storing to ensure no gunk is formed over time.
I know of some guys with older cars put a bit of aviation fuel in to lift the octane plus provide a bit of lead. We can buy it from an airport in Gerry cans for go kart racing, race bikes etc but nothing stopping us pouring into a car later. Since your gas is so cheap that might be an interesting test to do if you can get access to aviation fuel.

Kevin, Here, any such use of aviation or boat/off-road fuels can likely get you a huge fine. Nearly a third of our automotive pump price is "highway taxes" which in reality have been diverted into the general fund. In theory, they are collected to pay for all highway construction and maintenance, so using any alternate fuel is considered a "tax avoidance" crime and severely punished.
Now, because the state has pushed higher and higher fuel economy mandates onto newer cars, they are complaining that fuel usage is down and they aren't collecting enough money. Hybrids and electric cars also do not pay enough money, they say, so new ways need to be found to collect more. Of course, there is no effort to stop corruption and theft of taxpayers money. That is the one and only way a sustainable balanced budget can ever be achieved.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2

The point nine cents ($0.009) on every gas price listing is a temporary tax to help the war effort for WWII.
There is nothing more permanent that a temporary tax.
Death and taxes will always be for certain, but I'm not too sure about death.

Aviation fuel here in Calif. Is significantly more expensive than motor fuel, even with mogas taxes. Another reason the gubemnt outlaws it's use in cars is that 100ll ("low lead") has tetraethyl lead in it. The lead will kill a catalytic converter. Your car then expells more pollutants until your next smog check. When you fail that check that avgas will cost you a new catalytic converter plus installation.

You better bet I keep track of which bucket has avgas for my gyroplane. It hurts nothing if it gets into my model T, lawnmower, weed whacker or blower but better not end up in my truck or my wife's car!

I have nothing to add about this that everyone has not heard or experienced, just adding a big AMEN to all of the above. I have replaced two (2) tanks in my 1925, depending on someone else to drain them. I have a barn full of tractors, mowers and all that have been ruined by this crap. How well I remember having a barrel of gas in the barn that never went bad. My best story is a friend who parked his private plane (Av-Gas) for over 10 years (lost his Medical) decided to sell it, put in a new battery and flew it away, true story.

Terry Avgas is more expensive here also but not by that much, its 120 octane I think. I wouldn't put it in a late model car anyway. I do find it interesting comment about your smog check as we don't have them here. I was only suggesting adding some avgas to a tank of fuel in an older vehicle like Waynes truck just to see if it would improve the fuel economy & performance to see if it was viable. It would defiantly improve the keeping value.
Wayne we wouldn't get fined here, if we wanted to pay more for fuel by putting avgas in they couldn't give a hoot. There is probably the same amount of tax in that anyway. We also get hit with tax on our fuel but a much larger swipe than you. Our price of $8 per us gallon they take about $3.70 in tax.

I may have missed the memo. So the question is a car of the Model T Ford era was designed to run with a very low compression ratio 4.5 :1 and on "pool" gasoline > 70 octane and no lead. Why use 120 octane, lead in such an engine. If you want to spend money on expensive fuel use something similar to white gas for camping stoves 5 gallons @ $65.00 or even naphtha 5 gallons for $75.00.

If i remember right were owners advised in the old days to remove the head and clean the carbon from the engine?? With modern fuel has anyone had to do this?? Bud in Wheeler,Mi.

Last evening I was looking over some early (circa 1925) literature on Ford engines and water injection to remove carbon. Part of the discussion was the quality of fuel (1925 and on fuel) and its increased amount of kerosene that was mixed with gasoline that created a carbon build up. Did the brass era Fords, before 1920, and the change in gasoline manufacturing, have to have carbon removed? From the literature, the quality of fuel - gasoline - became "heavier" with the change in distillation/manufacturing process.

Bud, I usually have carbon to scrape off whenever I have the head off. I run a vaporizer, Z head, and "regular" non-leaded fuel.

Once I pulled the head because the engine started knocking. It turned out that enough carbon had built up that the junk on top of one piston was hitting the head. After "de-coking" the knock went away.

TH

Is there any additive or action that will slow down the build up of carbon and causing the problem Terry is referring to?

Just a thought/question about the carbon build up: The Marvel 'Mystery Oil' claims it can be added to gasoline to help clean out... Has anyone tried using it?

I find it interesting that when I have a failed head gasket I usually find that the cylinder into which the coolant (water) has leaked is clean down to the metal whilst the other three cylinders are coated in carbon build-up.

I've heard of people using a water injection set up on their intake manifold. The ads claim more power, better fuel economy, cooler running engine and a cleaner engine. I think a water injection system will also park your car for you, eliminate the need for the hand crank, air up the tires and access the global positioning satellites.

Well, uh, Terry water injection is really a marvelous thing. Ts do park themselves with water injection and they can find their way home too. The only down side is the concoction used - di-hydrogen oxide - it has a hydro-life, unlike plutonium which has a half life, and is dangerous if inhaled. I have attached an article from a Buck Rogers fan from 1924 - Evening Air for a T. It shows a way to inject hydrogen and oxygen into an engine to cure carbon build up.

a very good chevy dealer mechanic that restored cars also. many years ago showed me how he removed carbon he used a coke bottle full of water and poured it slowly in carb while holding throtle open he said he did it on tuneups. it would be harder with a updraft carb. I never tryed it myself but like Terry I have pulled heads that had a bad gasket and they are clean inside. marvel m oil may help it cant hurt and it may keep tank from rusting

I recommend the heck out of this stuff:

http://www.starbrite.com/item/star-tron-gasoline-additive?category_id=587

I use it all the time and, at least in my case, it does exactly what it says it does. _My engine just loves it.

Bob I contacted the NZ distributor and they only bring in the Diesel option....bugger.