I recently finished an engine for a guy that wanted a good touring engine. His engine came in .60 over and .30 over on rods and mains, he asked me if I could find a better engine since he wanted to tour it a lot and have many years of use. Need less to say engine is done and now he does not want it! He had nothing out of his pocket but plenty out of mine, so the moral of the story is A people are different than the great T people I have been dealing with through the years. This has happen a couple times with A people but never with the T people. So if you know any one that needs a .40 over engine and .010 mains and rods I have one you can hear run. Thanks and just venting.
Ever consider you just had a few customers who were problem children? Ever consider that these people just happened to own As and there is really no connection between your issues with them and their choice of car? I own three Model As and grew up in a "Model A" family. I also own five Model Ts/T-based systems. Frankly, after your rant about "Model A" people, I'd remit NONE of my engines - neither A nor T - to your care. By the way, there are a lot of people on this forum who own both "Model A"s and "Model T"s - perhaps they too, would take exception to your "venting."
Ok I am not sure I follow the first bit. Why didn't you find a better crank and use his? .060 over isn't bad. Didn't you get money up front? Don't matter if it's T or A, you should get approx 50% down to cover staring cost. Also less likely that they back out as they have an investment on the out come.
You can have stinker in any group, even T people.
I think Joe was paying a compliment to T folks. At least that's how I took it. Please, lets not over react.
Besides, I would never pretend to tell another man how to run his business.
Joe Bell will bend over backwards to do ANYTHING for anyone...so when he gets shafted, he has a right to vent. We all do. This guy is one of the last "good ol' guys" who still prefers to have "contracts" with a smile and a handshake, and that aint all bad. You got a question, you call him and get a good honest answer. You need a part, call him and chances are he not only has one, but he'll give it to you! You want an engine done good, and very very reasonable, and he'll do it. Got my respect!
Dennis, you're right. And you type quicker than me!!
Gee, Ron, .... are all guys from Massachusetts swell like you, or are you the only one ?
I think you should "own" his rant as a personal stab at you.
Do not know Joe Bell and how he does business. DO know that every individual should be treated on a case-by-case basis. I've been in and around this hobby for over 40 years with both Model As and Ts and I have never stiffed anyone. Nor have I ever extended a "compliment" to one man at the expense of another.
Pillows are for venting.
Sorry to hear your having a bad day ron!! Joe Bell is the salt of the earth!!! When i broke the crankshaft in my 14 Joe furnished a good crank and had it and the flywheel assembly balanced then had the machine work done and rebuilt the engine!!!! I really do not care what you think of me [who you have never met] but Joe Bell is a Great Guy!!! Bud in Wheeler,Mi.
I only have good things to say about Joe Bell (I have bought from him in the past and he went above and beyond to make sure I got what I needed). It saddens me that he would get shafted like that. Like all things to do with human beings, not all are alike. Many, many, model A people are wonderful people. But I have known a few that were fussy to a fault. I haven't known many real model T people that were.
I take Joe's words as a compliment to T people everywhere.
Joe, I hope you find a good buyer for that engine soon!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
I am on Joe's side in this one.
Besides, .040 is usually the first oversize a well worn block gets, and all that does is provide a slight bit more compression and power.
I would not consider .040 something that would weaken the engine. Also, .010 under on mains & rods is almost standard. What did he expect? I know guys that would brag about how much over bore their engine is.
I'm doing an A right now that was a worn out .080 and will have to go to .125" on the bore.
I think we are lucky that we can keep the crank at .020 and .030.
I think the last three T engines I did were .080 on the bore and .030 under on the crank and the customers were happy with being that close to standard.
Sounds to me like Joe's customer has changed his mind about getting a rebuilt engine in his T.
I think what Joe meant is that the engine was bored .060" over and .030" under on the crank when it came in and he had
to come up with a better core. Joe, I don't think you will have a problem finding a buyer based on your reputation here. Sorry you had a problem. Have not had any trouble with A guys, they are old car lovers too.
Model A's go to .125 over all the time. Our Gemsa powered T hill climber is bored .125" over, I worry about the block, would never do that to a customer's T touring engine. I never go more than .030" under on a T crank, and that only on late cranks.
"Do not know Joe Bell and how he does business. DO know that every individual should be
treated on a case-by-case basis. I've been in and around this hobby for over 40 years with
both Model As and Ts and I have never stiffed anyone. Nor have I ever extended a "compliment"
to one man at the expense of another.
Pillows are for venting.
Keep it coming, Ron. You're a real peach.
Thank you for your support to our hobby! I'm sorry to hear of your recent experience. Thank you for your vote of confidence about T people.
I'm glad we have the forum -- sometimes it can be helpful not just in a technical sense of "how to fix something" (it does great at that). But also for processing ideas (why will or will not this idea work). And as I think you used it now, sometimes just a place to come "get away from it all for a spell and share what's on our mind." I've used it for all three of those and found that overall it is has been very helpful to me.
Thank you for being a part of this group. I don't need an A engine but I will keep an ear out for anyone that may be looking for one and send them you way.
Hap l9l5 cut off
A bit too late for me.
I just got a Model A motor from MY rebuilder (Got a complete motor because the original was in really poor shape)
He kept me informed at all steps and helped me get a motor that saved me a bunch of money.
I made payments as the project progressed so he didn't have too much of his money involved and I think it helps him to be motivated to do work for me.
If I can't trust the rebuilder I should not be doing business with him.
I find that most T and A guys are honest and trustworthy but there are a few "Bad apples" in every group.
We can't let the rotten ones spoil the whole barrel.
I feel partially responsible for all this. If I hadn't begged Joe Bell to get into the Model A business by rebuilding my son's engine, this never would have happened.
I also have to thank Joe for all his help. My coupe now has some nice doors and rear window because of Joe.
Can't think of a more "stand-up" guy than Joe Bell. If Joe's got a rant, (which seems to be extremely rare for a guy whose always smiling), then it must be a legitimate one.
Ron, sounds like your not "remitting" an engine to him for a rebuild would be doing Joe a favor.
H From Iowa! I must add that Joe has been great to me and has done awesome work on several T engines an A & even a Cyclone B! In my book he is the Best and always MORE than fair!! Joe - keep it up!! Thanks John
Isn't .60 and .30 really .060 and .030?
I sure hope so!
Too bad this was not last summer - I just finished a full rebuild on my 29 - I wound up with .010 on the mains & rods, but .060 over on the bore (which was standard to begin with) just to cover the taper in the bores... Darned expensive year, but I'm pretty much done bleeding green now.
Sorry to hear this BS happened to you Joe. Sounds like you were penalized for being a nice guy who does business on a handshake. The guys who rebuilt my 2 engines did not request money up front either...not that I necessarily attribute this to being T guys, more likely just professional and mannerly folks.
Well I am old school and a hand shake is gospel to me but for the A people out there in the world they will give half down for now on. I have told people through the years that some day when I no longer enjoy firing an engine up for the first time is the day I decide to find another hobby. I sure enjoy seeing the old T's running down the road. Years ago I surprised my father on Father's day, He was camping a couple hour drive a way and I showed up with the T, He heard it first and then had that great big smile on his face! he gave many a rides that day at the camp ground. Thanks guys for some of the compliments I do try to help how ever I can!
Joe, I get the hand shake deal and what it should mean. Unfortunately I would not go into an expensive project like that without a down payment of some sorts.
I build engines for guys with 60's/70's cars. I tell them I need $XXXX upfront to pay the machinist (not me), and I give them a parts list and have them bring me or have the parts shipped to me directly.
That way the only thing I can possibly be out of is my labor and maybe some small items / chemicals / supplies. I also have done enough of these that I can ball park a job pretty good, usually within 10%. And the key to a lot of this is communication. I get a lot of people that want engines built on near standard size specs and I tell them why that may not happen.
Sorry again to hear you got shafted by a certain someone, I too don't believe it is because of a certain type of car a person has or drives, but I know how frustration can make you say things you may not mean.
I have a Model A. Does that make me a bad person? I agree Model T events are more fun than Model A events. But the people are all just people. Good and not so good n both groups.
I have noticed that there are folks who expect something for nothing. Again they are everywhere.
Model A and Model T owner here and have always paid my bills on time.
Joe just ran the 13 I picked up in April, wow! It is the smoothest running T I have put together out of the 65 or so that I have had done over the years. Thank you for what you do for the hobby. Mark Eyre
I don't think Joe really believes that all A guys should be forced to parachute over ISIS territory in Iraq or Syria. Just a couple of tongue-in-cheek comments we all sometimes make.