High Head Engine with a Low Head Radiator?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: High Head Engine with a Low Head Radiator?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Wednesday, August 05, 2015 - 01:20 pm:

What are some ways to adapt a low head (brass) radiator to a high head engine?

I am not looking for solutions like: Use a high head, or get a later radiator, or things like that.
The reason for doing this is that I am building a speedster that has a '14 body and a '26 engine. The problem is that there is not enough clearance between the top radiator intake spout and the spout coming off the head.
So how to make this work is the problem. I suspect that some of you out there may has solved this problem.

Please share any information or ideas that you may have.

Thanks & Regards,
Jon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Wednesday, August 05, 2015 - 01:24 pm:

Change the water outlet, Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Wednesday, August 05, 2015 - 01:25 pm:

You need the short style water neck.
https://www.modeltford.com/item/3004.aspx

You probably have this style instead?
https://www.modeltford.com/item/3004B.aspx


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Wednesday, August 05, 2015 - 06:01 pm:

Derek,
I have the short style neck #3004. It is still not a very good fit. It was suggested that I shave about 3/8" off the hose end of the spout. That preserves the "lip" to seal the hose. I think I will try that .
Thanks,
Jon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, August 05, 2015 - 07:36 pm:

The biggest difference externally between the low and high heads is simply that the water jacket is bigger and the height of the head is different. You may need to alter the firewall to clear the back of the head.
The head is about a half inch taller, but everything mostly fits fine. The neck bolted onto the front of the head is the only other thing you should have to change. Much more than a height difference with that is the angle difference. All black era radiator necks angle close to straight up. The brass era necks are at about 45 degrees, and yes, shorter.
In a pinch, you could do what I did once. I cut a rusty later one, ground a taper around the pieces, and brazed it together to match the angle and length of an original early one. Still working.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Wednesday, August 05, 2015 - 09:18 pm:

Jon,

The 1926-27 had the fan attached to the water outlet (see: https://www.modeltford.com/pl.aspx?t=s&v=3004E&page=1 ). Are you planning to run without a fan (some folks swear by that -- just don't be in a slow parade down south in July). Or were you planning to use some other style fan and if so what kind?

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Thursday, August 06, 2015 - 12:11 am:

As others stated but if you don't have the early fan I had cut each blade on the fan I used think it was 26/7 fan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Thursday, August 06, 2015 - 12:12 am:

Test


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Thursday, August 06, 2015 - 10:19 am:

I did this, putting a Z head on my 14. I used the early water outlet and shortened radiator hose then used a 1919-22 dash shield to clear the rear of the head.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, August 06, 2015 - 01:09 pm:

Jon,

I believe I've seen this accomplished by putting a spacer between the head and the water outlet. Something like may 1/2" - 3/4" thick if I recall.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, August 06, 2015 - 02:10 pm:

You might try replacing the timing gear cover with one made for the fan mount to the front of the engine. Then use the water outlet for the lower head. Then put on the hose to the engine and lastly install the radiator. That way you won't need to force the hose between the radiator and the engine.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, August 06, 2015 - 02:14 pm:

Oh, 1926. Well then spacing out the outlet will mess up your fan belt alignment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Friday, August 07, 2015 - 10:39 am:

Thanks to all of you for your input. I should mention that this is a NEW Brassworks radiator and Mark Chaffin's RAJO head, so because of the investment, I really need to make this work.
What I have done to help with the problem is to remove about 1/4 - 3/8" from the end of the water spout (the low stile spout) that bolts to the head. I of course left the raised lip at the end of the spout. This allows a little more flexibility for the top radiator hose. I believe this will make the connection possible.

Regards & Thanks,
Jon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, August 07, 2015 - 10:53 am:

You should have mentioned the Rajo head in the first post. My above post pertains to a T engine with high head.

Someone else with Rajo experience will need to answer your question.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Friday, August 07, 2015 - 11:43 am:

I think the RAJO head puts the spout right where it should be, but still there is a little bit of a problem.
I think shaving down the spout a bit will make it workable.
A picture is worth a 1000 words, so here are a couple thousand words with the shaved spout in place:





I think there is enough space now so that a short piece of radiator hose will fit.

Thanks & Regards,
Jon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, August 07, 2015 - 04:11 pm:

Minor offsets on up to half an inch can be dealt with by simply using a slightly oversize hose and squeezing it down to fit. Here, cheap wins. I usually use a piece of a used modern car twists and turns all over the place hose. I cut a short, straight, piece out of an appropriate size used hose. Usually, areas in the middle are in good condition, but maybe stretched out a little, and being intended for modern pressurized cooling systems, usually still very strong. They usually squeeze down to fit nicely and handle significant offsets easily.
I did that some years ago for a friend's car that had a badly bent frame, and on one of my speedsters that had the radiator moved a bit to line up with the body.
And yes, with a Rajo, you may have to trim a bit more than an inch off the firewall! But the radiator fit is made to match a standard T head and should be no trouble.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, August 07, 2015 - 04:39 pm:

From the picture, it looks like you can just cut a piece of hose the right length and then move the front of the radiator forward, place the hose on the fitting front of the engine and push the radiator back. Lastly adjust the top brace to match the hood,then tighten the hose clamps.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Friday, August 07, 2015 - 04:46 pm:

Thanks Wayne. In my case, I moved the firewall back two inches to accommodate the RAJO, but, of course, that does not move the front of the engine relative to the radiator.
Bottom line is that I think I can get the spouts connected now.
Thanks for your suggestion of using a modern hose.
Regards,
Jon


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