Have you seen one of these

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Have you seen one of these
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard A Eddinger Sacrament Ca on Friday, August 07, 2015 - 08:17 pm:

Has anyone seen one of these miniature T's? It is all metal except the turtle back. Looks commercially built. Looks like it is about a 3/4 scale. Little model t


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, August 07, 2015 - 08:25 pm:

No, but I like it! What engine and transmission does it have in it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard A Eddinger Sacrament Ca on Friday, August 07, 2015 - 08:35 pm:

At present it has a air cooled engine in it that that one of the former owners started to install but did not finish before he passed away. We have a real nice little ford engine and tranny I think it is from a Anglia or whatever they were called. Really not sure of the exact type but it is a very small 4 banger and there is plenty of room for it. Only thing I know for sure at this time is that the engine has ford script in several spots. Will know a bunch more when I get everything home. It has the model t dash and steering wheel and column. In fact when you look at it it is like you are seeing a T only some washed it in hot water and it shrunk.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warwick Landy Traralgon Australia on Saturday, August 08, 2015 - 03:50 am:

That thing looks amazing. Please post more pictures and information as soon as you have it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable - Kiama NSW OZ on Saturday, August 08, 2015 - 06:13 am:

The old Anglia or Prefect engine (Anglia was the 2 door version, Prefect the 4 door )is a smaller scale Model A motor. It uses a distributor with the same fitting as a Model A. The later Anglia/Prefect distributor is often used by Model A owners. They are a great motor I had one in a speedboat.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard A Eddinger Sacrament Ca on Saturday, August 08, 2015 - 08:45 am:

What is amazing to me is it looks like it is commercially built not like something that someone just cut down.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, August 08, 2015 - 09:18 am:

Richard,

From the single photo it appears that someone did a lot of good work on that body. It is possible that a small company produced a few of those. But I believe it is more likely that someone took a stock T body and cut the parts down to make them smaller. Once you have the car where you can look at it up close you should be able to verify that one way or the other. To create all new parts the correct size could be done, but it would take even more time and effort than making the original parts smaller. I.e. similar to “chopping the top” on a car but doing it in height and width (see also the comment near the end about a British company that did that with the Austin Mini’s).

Rationale:

Below is a photo of 1925 roadster from page 39 of the Jul-Aug 1985 “Vintage Ford” (this and other “Vintage Ford” photos are used by permission to promote our club and hobby.) I flipped the photo so it was pointed the same general direction (it actually was facing the other way in the magazine).





Below is a photo showing where a stock hood handle is located on a stock hood.



If you compare that to the photo of the 3/4 car you can see that the hood is most likely nicely cut down from a stock hood.



Rootlieb has some good photos of their reproduction 1917-1923 and 1924-25 (and the 24-27 Ton Trucks) hoods at: http://www.rootlieb.com/ford-model-t-hoods.html From the single photo you posted it looks like they took off some of the front of a standard hood. I cannot tell if it is a 1917-1923 hood that was modified or a 1924-25 style and if they took out other metal or not.

Below is a comparison of a 1925 original car (“Vintage Ford” Loss Leader article) and your new T.



Note a lot of the up and down was taken out at the splash apron area. And I suspect the body is setting down over the frame (called channeled on a Model A Ford where they cut the metal body sub frame out so the body will be lower on the frame.)

If the workmanship on the rest of the car is as nice as what is shown in that one photo – I suspect you have a very well made car. I also think if it had been finished and driving in the past, that it may have possibly been a well known hot rod/custom (probably a 4 cylinder engine of some sort and with the wire wheels – the 4 cylinder could have easily come out of the same donor British sports car the wheels came off of.) . I would recommend looking at it closer when you get it home. If it was done by a skilled person, as the photo suggests, I would recommend posting some photos etc. on the H.A.M.B site at http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/ or similar sites etc. asking is anyone recognizes the car or has information about it. [Disclaimer – H.A.M.B has a little more caustic language than the MTFCA site.] You could also send it in to Hemmings Classic Car magazine for them to publish in their “Lost and Found” section see: http://www.hemmings.com/hcc/stories/2014/02/01/hmn_feature6.html . They highlight unusual cars and they will often give what they can find and they ask the readers for inputs. That crowd does a great job of identifying cars. I could easily imagine it was on the cover of one of the Hot Rod type magazines back in the 60s-70s. And it is possible that it has historical significance as a Hot Rod and if so you would want to consider restoring it back as it was or selling it to someone who would like to do that.

On an Off Topic (OT) side note, there was a British company that took Austin Mini’s and cut them down several inches in width and height back in the 1960s-70s or so. The car would go a little faster because of the reduced wind resistance. I looked for a reference for that company – but I could not locate the book it was in.

Note Rootlieb can make you a T hood that will look the proper scale for your car – i.e. smaller louvers and the handle close to the middle etc.

Good luck with new “T” or possibly new “custom T” .

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Saturday, August 08, 2015 - 09:37 am:

I just barely fit into normal sized T.
There is no way I would fit into that fantastic automobile.

But I would love to have one for my girls!

Great find!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard A Eddinger Sacrament Ca on Saturday, August 08, 2015 - 11:56 am:

Thanks for all of the information every one. I have done a bunch of body work in past years and if this one has been cut down they did a heck of a job hiding it. I know about the tight fit and if I can't make a tad bit more room for the legs some how it will probably be for sale as I did get in it and the way I am built only 5` 10" but all legs it was not a good sight.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, August 08, 2015 - 12:27 pm:

Richard,

You might be able to move the body back as needed for your size, have a longer hood made for the car, probably need to build a second firewall that is lower than the current one, add a lip to the front of the body for the hood to rest on and then put a shortened pickup bed on the back.

But I still suspect if that car was driven on the streets -- it was known/documented. You might even try the Sacramento Vintage Ford parts, as they have been servicing antique as well as custom Fords for years -- see: http://www.vintageford.com/ If it was a local car -- they may have information or may be able to find out more about it.

One other reason I think it may have been cut down rather than produced new, is my experience as a teenager. One of the "old car folks" had a junk yard that supplied many of us with T and A parts. One of the items he had acquired was a T closed car cowl. Because it was symmetrical you can remove an equal amount from both sides of a cut down the middle and it will match up. He was doing that for his practice welding & body work. Way beyond my capabilities then as well as now. Usually on the inside the body work was not finished as well as on the outside -- so I would recommend looking at the centerline under the cowl etc. But you knew that already. And even if they were a great welder -- if you sand a little of the paint off, even a great weld will usually show tell-tell signs that the two pieces were joined together or if it was pressed out of a single piece of metal.

Again it is a very interesting car. I hope you are able to find out more of it's history.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Saturday, August 08, 2015 - 04:21 pm:

I wonder if it is one of these (ad found in the November-December 1969 issue of the "Vintage Ford":

mini_t


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard A Eddinger Sacrament Ca on Saturday, August 08, 2015 - 05:06 pm:

Mark
Sound a tad like it except mine is a little larger and is all metal except the turtle back. Might be from the same outfit though. I will try and research it and thanks for the information


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