Stock transmission brake vs. ac brakes vs. disk brakes

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Stock transmission brake vs. ac brakes vs. disk brakes
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Friday, August 07, 2015 - 09:46 pm:

I've read a lot of posts on the various brakes available for the T but little is available comparing them. I would like to hear from those who can compare the types mentioned in the title.

Given the fact that all these only brake the rear wheels, is there really a significant difference?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Spies - Ft. Walton Bch,FL on Friday, August 07, 2015 - 10:26 pm:

I had Texas T disk brakes on a 24 T. I recently took them off and put the original drums back on and was surprised at how much more effort it took to stop w/o the disk brakes. The regular T brake is inside the transmission.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Friday, August 07, 2015 - 10:59 pm:

Stock T brake is only one wheel brake due to the diff
But once you lock it up there all equal


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Friday, August 07, 2015 - 11:22 pm:

Just the trans. brake depends on kind and where you drive, what lining you have and how often you have to stop.
I have AC's and they work ok. I needed something else besides just the trans. brake. With cotton band linings and lots of stopping in city traffic would get very bad brakes fade.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Seager on Saturday, August 08, 2015 - 01:54 am:

If you want real stopping power and control disk brake are the way to go


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, August 08, 2015 - 08:52 am:

Big drum RM brakes added, compared to only the stock Ford trans brake seems to 'double' the stopping power, at least seems to me :-)

After adding the RM's, wouldn't want to remove them!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Saturday, August 08, 2015 - 08:56 am:

My 1924 cut-off pickup came to me with only the stock transmission brake. I found that the braking power was adequate, but it faded fast (had to apply brake for a second or two, then release to allow the oil to cool the lining, the reapply and repeat).

I added AC brakes and found that the braking power was similar (maybe a little better) than the stock trans brake, but the ACs are much more resistant to fade.

I haven't tried the disc brakes. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Wilson - Omaha NE on Saturday, August 08, 2015 - 08:57 am:

A friend of mine has Rockies on his 26 pick up. Big difference over stock. I have Sure Stop discs from Texas T. I would not have a T I wanted to drive in traffic with out them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Saturday, August 08, 2015 - 09:41 am:

I use a modified motor cycle disc 10 7/8 inch disc rotor on my 22 touring with transmission brakes they are just enough power to work forward and reverse for my area.
The Texas T rotors are much larger with more power for driving a heavy car or driving in a worse area. Any thing on a stock system that goes south like an axle you have no brakes besides the wear and tear stock brakes have on the stock system.
I value who ever might be with me with enough stopping power forward and reverse.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Saturday, August 08, 2015 - 10:45 am:

I went from stock T brake on a '14 Touring to Texas T Disc last summer. I do drive my T in traffic here in Houston. If you drive on tours, you can expect to be in traffic.

"Those people" do not know we can't stop like they do. I still drive defensively but I can put my stop reaction zone a little farther out.

I saved a two year old Brassworks radiator and front end on the '14 Touring two months after I had the discs installed. The guy never even looked my way when I locked them up.

A couple of other positives for that disc brake setup are a stop light switch and the ability to brake the car from rolling backwards which is a big plus in the hill country.

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, August 08, 2015 - 11:17 am:

I have been thinking on ways to fix the current RM so they do stop and hold in reverse on a hill.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Saturday, August 08, 2015 - 11:33 am:

The new rm brakes are different from orginal they increased forward stopping power and lost backwards power
I certainly like set of discs but it be another year of saving


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, August 08, 2015 - 11:47 am:

The transmission brake is amplified in Ruckstell. But not in Ford low. With Rocky Mountain brakes it stops much better going forward by using both transmission brake and Rocky's The disk brake would probably stop with less pedal pressure, but it looks out of place and regardless of which type brake you have on a Model T if you slide the rear wheels, it doesn't make any difference. Front wheel brakes would increase the ability to stop very fast with less wheel sliding, however, it would be very tempermental needing a very accurate adjustment to keep the car going straight without losing control of the steering. Even an out of adjustment rear wheel can affect the steering. Each system has it's advantage. If you were to drive slowly in very little traffic on level ground, the Ford brake would be fine. But in mountains or in traffic you need some additional braking ability.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Saturday, August 08, 2015 - 12:46 pm:

Add water to the equation and discs work much better. lots of wet around here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Wilson - Omaha NE on Saturday, August 08, 2015 - 02:28 pm:

I just found out where the brake petal is makes a lot of difference in the way the Texas T brakes work. When I sent the brake petal in to have the tab welded on, I sent an spoon petal to replace the 26/27 petal. I run a 27 engine in my 21. When I got it back I found like many petals it had bent over the years till it was about 3/4" off the floor when stopping. I do not have a torch,so I borrowed one last week, and bent the petal back closer to where it should be. I was doing other maintenance to the car and it was un-drivable until today. The leverage improvement makes them even better


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 11:51 am:

I used a torch to bend the pedals until I found out you are supposed to bend them cold.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 01:17 pm:

The only really good solution is front wheel brakes.
So the question is how many would prefer disc over "era correct " accessory drum brakes?
And yes the front axle has proven strong enough with the addition of a "radius rod doubler" to withstand the loads!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 01:38 pm:

Is there a better way to reenforce the radius rod at the pan if using front wheel brakes? I already had a 4 dip pan bent into the mag ring from I believe the previous owner hitting something with the front wheels.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 01:53 pm:

There's quite a difference between handling the force from braking and getting deformed by the much larger forces in a collision :-)
The pan is already handling all the forces from driving and braking in the standard setup.

With front brakes the wishbone needs to be doubled, both lower and upper to stop the axle from twisting forward.

Am I the only one who thinks the std brake works.. well, OK in a light car with new tires?
Haven't had any modern driver cut in front of me and step on the brakes, though - yet..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 02:33 pm:

The problem with rear only brakes is this;
In a panic stop on slippery conditions the car wants to "swap ends" ( all to do with coefficients of friction). 99.99% of the time you will never have the circumstances of this


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 03:20 pm:

Front wheel brakes along with something at the rear is a Very Desirable addition to any T that is Driven much in any town that has a McDonalds or very hilly areas. That modern car that cuts in front of the T and jams the brakes to make the McD driveway to feed the kids can certainly scare any expert T driver.

The most efficient braking on any car is on the front wheels. Both McNearny and Big Four made accessory brakes for the model T back in the mid 1920's. I copied from both designs and installed some front wheel brakes on the front of my '12 Torpedo. I have small drum Bennett's on the back.

The addition of brakes on the front was well worth the effort.

The Famous late RDR (Ralph Ricks) tirelessly promoted the necessity front wheel brakes and seat belts for any T that was regularly driven on a public street. He had installed the Nash Metro's hydraulic on all four wheels of his '15 Brass PiCup. The seat belts were needed especially when he demonstrated a panic stop to keep the passenger inside the car. They are a great way to add braking to a T and do not look out of place on a T.

The modern disc brakes work very good and was something I really considered to use But I chose the McNearny/Big Four outside drum brakes a more period look even though they are less efficient.

In my opinion the aftermarket disc brakes available now are an unsightly overkill on the back of a T and especially so on any Early Brass car. Of course on an Improved T they are not so noticeable but still not needed to be so large since they are located on the rear of the car.

I hope that Les gets his McNearny's ready for the market soon since I think they will be the perfect addition to the stock looking T.

At this years Cochrane national tour there was a Very nice looking brass touring that had the best looking hydraulic disc brakes I have ever seen on a T. They were small enough not to be noticed but still effective. If the owner of that car is reading this Please give us some more info. Yours is what guys should be copying!

Drive Safe and Often


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 03:38 pm:

Better than Becky's Ts? :-)

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/443956.html?1399701410

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/448911.html?1411599037


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 04:05 pm:

In a panic stop, 30 X 3 1/2 tires, don't matter if it's dry or wet, a locked up skid can get you into trouble. Same maybe even in pre anti-lock brake equipped car or truck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Seager on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 06:05 pm:

for those who think they are ugly I cant see any difference than a set of rockies which are equally ugly and do not have near the stopping power. Disk work good when backing and when wet. As much as the stopping power with the disk you have a lot greater control. Have run my sedan with all three original rockies and disk. Disk is superior in every way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Plank - Three Way, TN on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 06:27 pm:

The discs might look a little odd in the back, but I'll take the safety of the stopping power over the looks any day. They work really well and were easy to install. A very nicely designed set up and well worth the investment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 07:32 pm:

Gene
This is a entertaining crew on the forum
Lots of interest in the steering boxes until you ask for money!!
Likewise on the trans shaft. Same thing!!
I suspect it would be the same thing on front brakes
Front discs would be easier to make in a "No Weld" version


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 10:52 pm:

My opinion and preference would be if I would use the disc brakes they would be on the front first then also on the rear. The '14 I think touring I mentioned in Cochrane had 4 wheel discs and looked Very nice. I doubt if they were larger than 8" just like the original drums. It's just for me I wanted to keep at least a period look but also get some better braking.

Your right Les lots of us want stuff till it comes to paying what it costs for all the work that goes into making it. I've had several guys tell me I should start making more like I have and sell them. Ya right. If they knew how much time I spent to make them it'd be different.

Mark, No your right both Beckies T's have some amazing nice looking brakes. I like them both.

Although beyond the ability of most T guys I think. What would be the cost of production for those I wonder?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Monday, August 10, 2015 - 11:29 am:

Gene
I have looked into getting new front spindles with tilted kingpins and brake attachment brackets cast from 4140 steel. With sufficient volume actually quite reasonable price


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