Someone on the forum indicated that there was an early and late spare rim bracket assy, Part # 2872 and factory # 7317A. It had something to do with different mounting of the bracket to the body of a Roadster(runabout) and/or coupe.\
I did not hear of this before. Donnie Brown and other improved car people, what are your thoughts? This bracket is used on both the runabout and coupe body style.
There is a version with three bolts to the body/body frame and another version with four bolts. Here's a picture of the four bolt version:
The three bolt version has only one bolt to the body frame. The upper bolts attaches to a bracket behind the sheet metal.
Unfortunately I don't know which version was early and which was late?
My 1927 Roadster was built in September 1926. It has the 3 hole bracket.
Ok, then it's likely one of Fords continous cost savings - four bolts first, three bolts later on when tested and found sufficient.
I found a couple of pictures from when I was disassembling the car for painting.
The bending under of the bodywork is caused by having no bumpers but bumping anyway... with the spare tire!
Ouch, I made a mistake there, assuming the single hole was down on the three hole versions as I would have designed it.. Sorry, should have looked among my parts before posting..
Roger - I too remembered the holes being as you said, until the pictures reminded me differently!
Donnie Brown can then add that the early spare tire bracket mounted to the body with four fasteners (two on the top portion of the circle and two on the bottom portion of the circle) and the later style mounted to the body with three fasteners: one on top of the circle and two on the bottom portion of the circle!
Since you guys are not in the U.S.A. could this have been an offshore change or does anyone in the U.S.A. have a coupe or runabout with the three holes to the body mounting?
Do not want to give Donnie Brown incorrect information!
My investigation and opinion was that the three bolt was used last.
I was aware of the 2 versions, I am like the rest of you and believe the 4 hole came first then the three hole. My same thoughts as to it being a cost cutting thing. But I have no documentation as to which came first, just some observations from existing cars. Interesting thought about the offshore possibility. Ill have to do a little more research about that option, but I have seen enough of both versions to think "not". But it may also be a "Canada" thing. Too early to say ...
Donnie and others: would not there need to be a part number or suffix change when they went from one mounting configuration to another? If one purchased a four hole mount it would not fit on a body that had only 3 holes to mount.
I looked at a price list of parts dated Nov 1,1937 and even there it listed only part number 2872 or factory number 7317A for the bracket for the Roadster and Coupe. You would think after 10 years they would have listed both types if both types were used!
I could see if it did not effect fit or function to have the same number, but in this case fit is a problem!
Researching the Panel (deck center) Assy Lower I found two different numbers as follows:
48206ARX for 1926 and 48206BX for 1926 and 1927 roadsters/runabouts.
I do not know what the difference is, but it may have something to do with the spare tire bracket mounting holes.
The roadster that Roger posted the photo of was built in October 1925
Just came back from a car show today, and there was a coupe with the three bolt attachment of the spare tire carrier to the back of the body. There was also a roadster with a four bolt attachment of the spare tire carrier to the back of the body. Both of these were the improved models. Do not know the production dates of either vehicle.
So that means they exist in the United States. Does anyone know why Ford did not assign different part numbers or suffix number to these parts. I have only seen one part number for this spare tire bracket, yet two different mounting attachments to the body?
What an interesting thread! I had never given it a thought but this discussion caused me to get up and out of my comfort zone watching Houston lose to San Francisco and go out to the Conservatory and inspect my late '27 coupe and early '26 roadster. I'm second owner of both Ts and they're both matching serial number cars. Sure enough, the roadster has 4 bolts and the coupe three. Must be export models to the Republic of Texas.
George, can you give me the dates of manufacture of your two cars. I am compiling a list of early and late features on the various different parts. Your two cars sound like a good candidate for early versus late. Maybe with enough dates we can get a little better picture of when some of the changes happened ... Thanks .... Donnie Brown ... Arnie, I have sent two PM messages and you are not getting them . Please send your e-mail address to me: dobro (at) artelco.com
Three bolt carrier, 26 coupe 13606xxx
James, Thanks ....
Wilco Donnie. This afternoon after church.
I would be curious to know if the 3-bolt to 4-bolt change happened when the coupe body rear subframe design was 'simplified'. My '26 with 3 bolt carrier has the more complex rear to side subframe corner connections made up of several individual pieces in the corners. Later subframe corners were simply mitered & joined @ 45 degrees.
I would be curious to know when the coupe body rear subframe design was 'simplified'. My '26 with 3 bolt carrier has the more complex rear to side subframe corner connections made up of several individual pieces in the corners. Later subframe corners were simply mitered & joined @ 45 degrees.
My 26 coupe, January 5,1926 has the four bolt design.
Donnie - as promised and this brackets the beginning and end of 'New and Improved'. The 4 bolt spare tire carrier in the '26 model year roadster is engine and frame number 12,765,011 of November '25 and the engine/frame number 14,996,409 of the coupe had a 3 bolt spare carrier fastened in May of '27. This was an interesting exercise for me.
Thanks everyone. Ill add the numbers to my growing list of dates for Improved Model features. We may never figure it out but it is fun trying, and the more info we gather the better for all of the T world. Thanks again ... Donnie Brown ...
My car is a 135XXXXX series model T coupe. This is April 26. It has 3 bolt attachment, 2 on bottom, I on top. Bob
So far Jan 1926 is the latest 4 bolt number, and April 1926 is the earliest 3 bolt style number. This indicates the change was made in the 1926 model year. So if more numbers hold true to the numbers I already have, sometime in Jan, Feb, March, or April 1926 is when the change happened. It is still too early to say, as I need lots of numbers to give a good survey. Several of the cars surveyed appear to be very good candidates for the parts being correct to the engine/frame numbers. But more numbers will just help reinforce the final decision... Thanks again. Please keep the numbers coming, along with a brief description of why the parts are probably correct to your car numbers. Donnie Brown ....
If someone has the prints or record of changes for part number panel assembly 48206ARX 1926 only and panel assembly 48206BX used both for 1926 and 1927 and if (key word!!)it shows that the hole configuration for mounting the spare tire is different in this panel assembly, we might get our answer as to which was first for sure.
I do not understand. Tom C. mentioned a 1927 with a four bolt spare tire mount. Therefore it seems to be question just when the change was made!
Arnie. I am not seeing a Tom C above with the 4 bolt 27 mount . ??? but I am old and blind . As to it being possible for the 4 bolts to run into 27 model years. It could very likely happen, due to using up parts at a different rate at the different branches, or the different branches being slower to implement the change ...
Did I say 1927 with 4 bolt? If I said that, I believe I was mistaken. I think early is 4 bolt, late is 3 bolt.
Tom Carnegie, I was wrong! You stated a 3 bolt spare tire carrier in your August 23rd 11:33 posting. I just got to screw my head on straight again. So Donnie, you might be correct with four bolt early and later (to save money??) a three bolt design was used. Thanks for pointing this out to me. I want us/me to be as accurate as possible, so I want to correct any/many of my errors before they spread out as truth!
my July 7 -26 has three bolt
Thanks Dale, one more number to the list
The 3 bolt roadster/coupe spare tire mount came in more than one length, also. There is 5/8" difference in how far the mount sets the tire away from the body. I suspect that Ford increased the length in the later mount.
I can't re-size and post photos, so I emailed you a note with the photos showing the difference a few days ago. If you can not find it, I can re-send it.
Jim, Yes I received the pics, but have been so busy I forgot to get back to you. Ill post them here for everyone to see the two different lengths of the 3 bolt style you have. I agree with your thoughts about the longer one being a change to give a little more room for the trunk lid to open .???? Just an opinion at this time but it does make sense. Thanks for taking the time to send them .... Donnie Brown
Does anyone know what length the sedan mounts are. I am un-familiar with anything pertaining to sedans. .... Do they look like the mounts shown above or are they totally different . ?? Thanks Donnie Brown ...
Just a side note... My April 26 coupe has the short mount. A flat washer between the body and the mount at the top, moves the spare tire out enough for the trunk to pass.
The 1926 and 1927 sedans use the same "goose-neck" type spare tire carrier as the touring cars, and are mounted to the rear spring clamps on the cross member.
Jim, Thanks. I found a couple pics of the sedan mounts. Just one more of the things I never really paid attention to.
One of my friends has a spare tire mount that has 3 holes near the top part of the flange that mounts to the body and two holes near the bottom of the flange that mounts to the body! I do not know if this is stock, so we will need to see more of this configuration. If indeed this configuration was used a three hole body mounting arrangement or a four hole body mounting arrangement could use the same spare tire mount part! At his time just fiction not fact. We need more information from forum members to make sense out of this!