And then i put on the hot air pipe .....

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: And then i put on the hot air pipe .....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rolf Oehman on Friday, August 14, 2015 - 03:21 pm:

Hi everybody !

Me and my little T-ford have not ben good friends ever since i bought him a few years ago. He has ben grumpy and difficult all the time. The problem has been heīs constantly fouling the #1 and #2 spark plugs. He behaves well with new cleaned plugs, but they will soon bee sooty again.
When we go for a ride, he has been hesitation and bucking like a stubborn old horse. I have gone thru all possible causes.
Things like carburetor, compression, ignition leaking manifold and so on. The compression was a little uneven so I honed the cylinders and put on new rings. Cut the valve seats just a touch. Result was good even compression on all 4 cylinders, but that didīt fix it.
I`m running an vintage american bosch front plate distributor. Strong blue sparks on all 4 plugs (champion X) and timing is right. The kingston L-4 was next to be checked. No problem found. New glands and copper rings on the manifold. No leaks.
Problem remained.
I have been glancing on my carb.stowes hanging on the wall for a while, but various opinions here on the forum have made me doubt their eligibility. But for the heck of it I put one on.
Boy was I surprised . The engine ran smooth and strong. Huge difference. It was like night and day. All problems gone.(all four plugs light tan color)
Me and my little Ford are best friends now and we have ben travelling many many miles of gravel roads here in Sweden this summer. Happy days : )
So, to all of you who have problems with foulig plugs and canīt find the cause, Try the hot air pipe. Not so much for the outside icing on the intake manifold, but for the vaporizing of the gas.
I know every engine are different, and some will run best without the stowe but.....worked for me.
Rolf


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthonie Boer---- Klaaswaal NL on Friday, August 14, 2015 - 04:08 pm:

Rolf ; Your problem with your first carburetor is:Your mixture is TO rich !!!!!
Toon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rolf Oehman on Friday, August 14, 2015 - 05:25 pm:

Anthoine.
No the carburetor setting is the about the same. The problem before I put on the stowe was that the plugs on 3 and 4 was bone white and 2 and 1 was black and sooty.
How do you cure that.
I found the solution. : j
Rolf


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rolf Oehman on Friday, August 14, 2015 - 05:27 pm:

Forgot to say. It's the same carburetor.
Rolf


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house . . .caldwell county, TX on Friday, August 14, 2015 - 07:15 pm:

Good for you Rolf! You must live in relatively high humidity. You're correct though; every engine acts differently to its environment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Friday, August 14, 2015 - 07:53 pm:

I suspect you have a bad gland on the #3&4 intake port.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bender Tulsa Oklahoma on Friday, August 14, 2015 - 09:34 pm:

leaking intake manifold, Royce is correct.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin Konrad on Friday, August 14, 2015 - 11:44 pm:

"Splain to me Lucy".... Short of being forced air heating, I've never heard of something called a 'hot air pipe'. Can someone educate me, please?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Saturday, August 15, 2015 - 12:08 am:

Marvin, its the metal tube assembly that runs from the carb, and bolts to the exhaust manifold... Just for the record, i agree with Rolf in that all our T's have their own personalities...My car has no intake leaks, but absolutely refuses to run well without the pipe, in any weather condition or season,....she likes what she likes, and all i can do is comply..:-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbxEqZmnkhE


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rolf Oehman on Saturday, August 15, 2015 - 12:11 am:

Thanks guys for the responses and suggestions to what the problem might be.
George. I live in Scandinavia and in the summer the relative humidity is in the mid range (75-80%). The average daytime summer temperature is rather cool (64-78). I have had this problem for years under various conditions, spring,summer and autumn
Royce and Mike. I am aware of the symptoms with leaking intake manifolds regarding lean vs rich. That was my primary
hypothesis, but I could not find any leaks. Tried leak test with WD40.
New glands and copper rings. Made sure the glands did not bottom out. Surfaces on block and manifold was smooth and straight. Tight clamps.
The important thing is the problem disappeared when I put on the hot air pipe. I don't want to be a smart ass, but still suspect the hot air contributes to better vaporizing of the fuel.
Rolf


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Saturday, August 15, 2015 - 01:48 am:

Your environment is a lot like that in Wisconsin (when the weather is somewhat normal at least).
My '19 Touring has the stove while my '27 Tudor does not but I have an entirely different carburetor on the '27 and it's a straight-through if that makes any difference.
Both run perfectly all the time.
I can't remember the last time I adjusted the carb on the '19 and I CAN'T adjust the one on the '27 because it has fixed jets.....period.......and I love it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Saturday, August 15, 2015 - 01:49 am:

By the way......I had an uncle Rolf from Norway....... :-O


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rolf Oehman on Saturday, August 15, 2015 - 02:57 am:

John. Sweet sound from that engine, and looking very nice too.
Craig. I live in Oslo the capital of Norway and have my country house in Varmland Sweden. Its just an hour and a half drive (74miles) Small countries here in Scandinavia. By the way I am Swedish . Just to add to the confusion. 😊


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin Konrad on Saturday, August 15, 2015 - 11:28 am:

Thanks, Rolf, John and Craig. As much 'tinkering' as I've done with our T's ( they don't have the 'hot air pipe'), or just being a swap meet dummy.... Thanks for educating me! Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Saturday, August 15, 2015 - 05:01 pm:

Rolf, don't argue with success, be happy and drive on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russell Nave on Saturday, August 15, 2015 - 07:34 pm:

The hot air pipe solved my intake manifold and carbie icing problem and smoothed up running performance in general (I live in the Ca. desert and drive the trails a lot the full year round). Once the car started running bad miles from town, I lifted the hood and saw the stove pipe had fallen out of position. I wired it up to the carb adjusting rod and has been that way since.

Interesting note; I was at the model T snowmobile meet this year in Stowe VT. and the majority of the T's had no air pipes on them, we were running in very low temperatures and every one ran great! I don't get it!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Saturday, August 15, 2015 - 08:08 pm:

Humidity has everything to do with it.
Low temps usually mean not only low humidity but also denser air so they run better all around.
You're more likely to ice up on a hot humid day than a cold dry one.
The air horn on my '19 will get some frost on it in warm weather driving even with the stove.
Without the stove it would probably ice up and run like crap.

Rolf, my great grandmother on my father's side was a full blooded Swede........yikes....... LOL


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, August 15, 2015 - 09:29 pm:

Maybe I missed it, and you said. And Royce may like this one. I would bet that you have a water pump.
Due to the realities of thermal migration, and the convection effect of relatively cool air blowing onto the front of the engine block. Number one cylinder runs considerably cooler than all the others. Number two cylinder runs about halfway between what three and four do compared with number one temperature wise. Got all that? Thermo-siphon evens that out somewhat because the water pauses longer in the block and warms a bit more before going into the radiator. The resultant effect is that the air blowing through he radiator is a bit warmer which in fact does not cool the numbers one and two cylinders quite as much, which in turn makes them run somewhat warmer, and a bit more evenly with numbers three and four.
Thermo-siphon is somewhat temperature self regulating. When the water has warmed up enough, or as the engine gets hotter, the water flows faster, cooling faster through the now hotter radiator. If you throttle down, the engine generates less heat. The engine gets cooler, the water gets cooler, the flow slows down again, the water pauses longer, the water gets warmer, things get hotter, and the water speeds up again. self regulating temperature. No thermostat needed.

If you run a water pump, and you have a decent radiator? One of the side effects is that the engine tends to run too cool. The explosive mixture does not burn as well, some cylinders may misfire, and plugs foul up making the problem worse. This effect is greatest on (guess what?) cylinder number one, and to a lesser extent, cylinder number two.

A hot air pipe will help under any conditions of an engine running too cool. The improvement would be especially noticeable in any cool or higher humidity environment.
And I certainly would not argue with success! If the car runs better with the heat stove? Use it. I also am not a die-hard-anti-waterpump fan, although some of my best friends are (one of my best friends cuts every T water pump that comes his way in half very quickly!). Some Ts do benefit from using a water pump. Especially if their radiators are not working efficiently. Most Ts are better off without them.
Just more babbling from me.
Drive carefully, and do enjoy. W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rolf Oehman on Sunday, August 16, 2015 - 05:11 am:

Wayne. No water pump. :-) Got a Bergs flat tube radiator a couple of years ago.
You are right about running cold, Bergs radiator is to darn efficient.
LOL I also think you are spot on regarding humidity.
Anyway: The reason I started this tread was just to praise the hot air pipe , and give an advice to people like me who have done about everything to track down the problem of a crappy running engine due to fouling of the front plugs. And the simple solution to try the
pipe and see if itīs the fix. As I said to start with: many engines runs best without one.... but my little Ford loves it. :-) Rolf My 1926 roadster


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, August 16, 2015 - 06:52 am:

Like I said, do not argue with success. Thank you for bringing it up. I hope others will try your suggestion and find that the heat stove/pipe solves their troubles.
That is one beautiful T! I hope you enjoy it for many years to come.
Drive carefully, and do enjoy! W2


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