Hood Shelf Question for 1926-27 Canadian Car Owners

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Hood Shelf Question for 1926-27 Canadian Car Owners
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Saturday, August 29, 2015 - 01:24 pm:

My 1927 Tudor was manufactured in Canada and things were bolted down with Robertson (square drive) screws. Over the years, screws that were lost were replaced with whatever was handy: slotted or Phillips. Since I am now in the final phase of body work/primer/paint, I am replacing the worn screws and those that were incorrect.

The four long 3 1/2" 1/4"-20 hood shelf screws on my car are currently flat head Philips. I did a double-take when looking on Lang's site as the long screws are carriage bolts. I then went to look at my hood shelf and there are no square holes stamped into the metal, nor does it look like they were "rounded" out with a drill bit - this is the way it came. Unless I am mistaken, this is another difference between the Canadian and U.S. cars.

Can anyone with a late model T confirm whether or not their hood shelves use carriage bolts and if not, what type of screws were used? Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Saturday, August 29, 2015 - 01:51 pm:

My 1924 cut-off pickup has carriage bolts, but the previous owner(s) had replaced a lot of the original bolts with incorrect fasteners, so I'm not sure mine are original.

My August 5, 1928 parts list book shows them as carriage bolts, the short bolt is part 3088-B and the long bolt is part 3088-C. Both are called "engine pan and hood board bolts".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Saturday, August 29, 2015 - 01:59 pm:

Hi Jim,

I can't and won't speak of Canadian production, but all US built cars (Improved and '25 and back) which I have looked at use carriage bolts for the hood shelves. My two cents worth, perhaps overvalued. Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Peterson College Place, WA on Saturday, August 29, 2015 - 04:19 pm:

My Canadian 26 Fordor had carriage bolts on the hood shelves when I started restoration on an assumed original car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warwick Landy Traralgon Australia on Saturday, August 29, 2015 - 06:57 pm:

Jim, My Canadian RHD 26 Tudor had carriage bolts on the hood shelves. Robertson screws everywhere else. Have never seen a slotted screw in this area on a USA or Canadian car. My carriage bolts did however have square rather that hex nuts that the vendors supply with the new bolts. I think you could safely use coach bolts and be correct.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Saturday, August 29, 2015 - 07:21 pm:

I'll second Warwick's observations. I have never seen other than carriage bolts and square nuts to hold down the hood shelves. They normally do have a smaller head than standard carriage bolts though.If I can't find originals, I grind the heads down by rotating them in a hand drill against my bench grinder stone.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Cook, Geneva,NSW Australia on Saturday, August 29, 2015 - 07:45 pm:

Jim, Carriage bolts and square nuts on my Canadian '26 as well. Robertson screws on the wiring block.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Sunday, August 30, 2015 - 01:17 pm:



Here are some photos of my hood shelf. I tried a 1/4" carriage bolt on the hole and the square portion will not go through. It had to have been stamped/drilled that way. I also posted the screw with trim into one of the 1/4" holes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, August 30, 2015 - 01:35 pm:

Here's a picture of '26-'27 hood shelves from Lang's website:

shelves


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Sunday, August 30, 2015 - 01:56 pm:

I have seen that picture, which is why I posted my query. Here is a pic of the hood shelf and screws/trim that came with my car when I bought it, assembled on the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Sunday, August 30, 2015 - 02:07 pm:

Jim
I can buy Robertson head machine screws here if you need some. They will accept stove bolt square nuts
I have a original unmolested early production '26 coupe that I will look at this evening
Do you have the correct Canadian front license plate holder?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Sunday, August 30, 2015 - 02:13 pm:

Les:

I just sent you a private message. Thanks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Sunday, August 30, 2015 - 03:48 pm:

The Canadian front license plate bracket is located under the head light


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Sunday, August 30, 2015 - 03:57 pm:

No, I do not have that then. My front license plate bracket mount with one of the front spring bolts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Wednesday, September 02, 2015 - 01:35 pm:

I took a closer look at the hood shelves on my 1924 cut-off pickup and noticed that the carriage bolts that hold the hood shelves on are short, and only attach the shelves to the upper flange of the frame. My car does not have dust shields mounted (I have a set, but they are sitting in the basement).

So, I ordered a new set of blocks and the proper length carriage bolts from Lang's, but it begs the question, why did Ford use such long bolts that go all the way through the bottom flange of the frame rails in the first place?

Is it because those bolts also attach the dust shields, and it was cheaper to use one long bolt in each location instead of two short ones? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Wednesday, September 02, 2015 - 06:31 pm:

Mark, the longer bolts certainly make fitting the two components much easier. Perhaps speed of assembly was the driver.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Thursday, September 03, 2015 - 01:21 pm:

A thing to remember is that there were 3 or 4 different body manufacturers that made some parts a little bit different. In the early days you had to order body parts by manufacturer not just car make. Additionally many reproductions are the middle of the road design and require some modifications to fit correctly. Some parts require a trim with a Dremel or a hole drilled, some more than others. I have ordered small body parts from vendors that require slight mods to fit.


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