Timing gear/commutator question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Timing gear/commutator question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David M. Coleman on Sunday, August 30, 2015 - 06:54 pm:

Back in the T world after a 6 year hiatus. Sure missed it. I bought a '23 touring with old restoration. Claim was that there was an 'engine rebuild' about 5 years and 200 miles ago. Runs like crap.

Did most of the normal things including a new needed camshaft bearing, hoses, plugs, wiring harness, etc.

I installed a Tru-Fire ignition system (used them happily in my 2 earlier '26 Tudors.)

Here is the question. When I tightened the nut down on the commutator pickup at the end of the cam shaft, the cam will start rotating before the split washer is fully squished; this is NOT a lot of pressure. I can't imagine that it would rotate unless somehow it is not seated on the camshaft hub and pins. Is this humanly possible?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David M. Coleman on Sunday, August 30, 2015 - 06:56 pm:

Should read replaced camshaft seal, not bearing 😃


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd, ............Red Deer, Alberta on Monday, August 31, 2015 - 10:31 am:

How much does it rotate? Just a smidge? Or more?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Monday, August 31, 2015 - 10:52 am:

Maybe a worn out timing gear and / or crank gear. That will cause erratic valve timing and ignition timing, which will make the car run like crap.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, August 31, 2015 - 11:25 am:

If the camshaft AND crankshaft both move, you have very low compression! If only the camshaft moves, either your dowel pins are missing or the teeth on the gear are extremely worn.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David M. Coleman on Monday, August 31, 2015 - 11:33 am:

Thanks. Will do some more checking this AM. I did have 45 psi compression on all four cylinders which I would assume is good enough.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Monday, August 31, 2015 - 11:35 am:

Hi David,

Yes, 45 psi is adequate. Good luck with your project. Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, August 31, 2015 - 01:43 pm:

David,

First of all, great to hear you're still into, (or back into), T's. I recall the Tudor you had when in the Piquette T's.

There should be or could be "some" movement when you do what you did. The question, already asked by another, is how much movement? There should be a small amount of clearance between the crankshaft gear and the timing gear. Like maybe .005/.008. If there's some wear issues, like in some of my cars, it could be more like .015, (which is too much, I know). Tightening the cam nut could have moved the camshaft/gear/rotor a small amount, commensurate with that amount of gear clearance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Monday, August 31, 2015 - 04:03 pm:

The two pins should hold the camshaft gear to the camshaft. I don't see where there would be any play, more than 2-3 thou, between the two. His needs more investigation, the timing cover comes off fairly easily, then you can see almost everything, of course the radiator is best moved for ease of access.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Monday, August 31, 2015 - 06:36 pm:

David, there is no need to totally squish that heavy spring washer when fitting the sender onto the camshaft. It may distort the plastic body. I fit mine with a dab of loctite on the nut and then run the nut up and only partially squish the washer.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David M. Coleman on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 01:28 pm:

Hey Jerry! The Piquette T's are an awesome group and I miss active involvement. Remember the first tour from the plant to the Detroit Yacht Club for their Father's Day antique car and boat show? And I loved to one to the Edsel Ford Honeymoon Cottage in Indian Village. You were a terrific help on my Tudor.

So I have her running. Not the issues that I thought. The timing gear appears new and the clearances are pretty much in range. My timing of the True-fire was a million miles off and I had to work hard to extend/bend the rod so it was both long enough and functional. Cooling off now so I can retorque the new head gasket.

I can't tell much about the bands, but I am skeptical. In fact I am skeptical of the entire 'rebuild' that this engine presumably had. Have a new set to install when other things seem stable enough.

Again, thanks all for helping relieve my frustration.

d


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