Late 1927 X-connecting rods

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Late 1927 X-connecting rods
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Evan in Paso Robles on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 11:51 am:

Hello Folks,

I tried to use the search feature looking for information on the late 1927 X-connecting rods and did not have any luck.

With that said I recently opened up the engine in our Tudor and found that it has the late X-rods. The piston pin is larger than the earlier pins and held in place (from what I've been told) by a clip inside the center of the rod bushing.

I have two questions:

How do you remove the pin from the piston and the rod?

Are pistons made for the larger pin or do you simply modify the earlier pistons to take the larger pin?

Thanks for any help you provide,

Evan in Paso Robles, CA


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 12:03 pm:

Model A's used the same setup. The clip is a open ended ring that is held in place between the bushing in the rod. (Anyway that how it's done in the Model A) You just push them out. There was a tool for installing the wrist pins in the Model A, looked like a bullet, it spread the ring allowing the wrist pin to slide in behind it.
No help on the other question. After you get the wrist pins out, what is the dia. of the pin? Model A's may be the same.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 12:29 pm:

Evan, I, too, have a set of X rods. In Jan 2004, I sent an inquiry to Egge to see if they had a piston for them. An employee by the name of Jim Ketchum, replied. I don't know if he is still with them. I think that I remember him saying Model A's used a 1" pin. Anyway, He said that if I furnished him with information on how pin was locked and the measurements from the old pistons, that he would try to come up with a replacement for me. I didn't follow through as I replaced the rods with H beam rods.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Bennett on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 12:36 pm:

The late rods used a completely different piston. They had a slight dome shape on the top. They are a quite thin casting compared to the earlier pistons. If memory serves me right all rings are above the wrist pin and they are narrower rings. I have two sets of rods/pistons. Unfortunately both sets of pistons are standard size. Not much help if you need to bore the block. I have modified older style pistons to work with these rods but the wrist pin area of the rods is substantially wider than the earlier rods and you will have to remove quite a bit of materiel out of the inside of the piston or narrow the rod. I talked with Ross pistons and they are willing to make pistons to fit these rods, but they would be quite pricey!! I hope this helps!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 01:04 pm:

For those who have never seen late rods and pistons here are a few pictures. These are not mine.












Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting, Clare, Iowa on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 01:30 pm:

Those are spun poured Rods.

Herm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 01:30 pm:

Did the X rods come during the spring of 1927? What's the earliest engine # where likely original X rods has been found?
Did the pressed steel style pistons come first after car production stopped in may '27?

I suppose cast iron pistons were reintroduced some time later during '27, since they seems to have been a disappointment and the Model A never got them.. But were later replacement Model T engines fitted with X rods until the end in 1941 or did they change back to regular rods?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By lorenzo leon on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 01:50 pm:

Is there a hole on the side ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 01:59 pm:

Lorenzo, I suppose it's a pressed dimple to keep the rod bolt from turning?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting, Clare, Iowa on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 03:17 pm:

There should be one on each side, and that is how the rod was held for the machining operation.

There also may be one on the wrist pin end.

Herm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By joe bell on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 05:30 pm:

I have rebushed the rods for modern pistons that are a vailible. You need to machine the wrist pin down and bore for snap rings in the pistons to make them work, I was also told that Egge has a piston on the shelf that fits right in? never order or checked on them. Hope this helps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 07:48 pm:

An x rod would be weaker both in bending and in torsion compared to a I beam rod of similar dimensions. I think they must have been an engineer's bad dream.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 11:51 pm:

Ford carried the X rod over into early model A production then promptly dropped it and went back to conventional H beam rods. There is a reason. Don't use them. Put them on eBay and they probably will bring enough money to buy a set of good rods from the vendors for your engine and you won't have to buy special pistons to use weak rods. They are display items.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Yoder, Iowa City IA. on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 11:55 pm:

The prints at benson ford of x rods beginning date is 1925


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting, Clare, Iowa on Wednesday, September 02, 2015 - 12:17 am:

I have rebuilt 3 sets of Model T X's, and and maybe 75 sets, of Model A X's, give or take.

You won't notice any difference in strength or use usability.

The only draw back is when checking alignment, they are hard to get a normal bending iron on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Wednesday, September 02, 2015 - 12:28 pm:

Another draw back with this type rod (T or A even the later H style rods) is you can't replace the stud when the threads get pulled because someone over torqued the nuts. There is not enough material on the rod to remove the stud and machine a flat for the bolt head.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Wednesday, September 02, 2015 - 02:34 pm:

According to the Ford print I have the earliest date on the "X connecting rod" factory number T-641A-Exp Mfg is dated October 27, 1926.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Evan in Paso Robles on Thursday, September 03, 2015 - 10:17 am:

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I am still thinking about my options and will post the direction that I decide to take…………as soon as I figure it out.

Thanks again,

Evan in Paso


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Owens on Thursday, September 03, 2015 - 10:41 am:

Mark, Iam looking at a Model A rod and its of the stud style. No way to use the T style rod bolt. Change out the stud if the threads get damaged. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Thursday, September 03, 2015 - 11:12 am:

Evan
You might wish to consider this?
SCAT is introducing a new forged Model T rod that is designed to be Babbitted, has ARP type bolts and a floating pin arrangement. This later feature will require the piston to be machined for a pin keeper. All the engineering and design work is completed, the forgings are being made and will be available soon.
I have these rod on order and will be using them in addition to a SCAT crankshaft in an engine I am having built.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Evan in Paso Robles on Thursday, September 03, 2015 - 12:01 pm:

Thanks Ron for the info on the SCAT rods. I have a SCAT crank in my 14 touring and had asked Tom when he was going to make the T rods.

Now another thing to consider…..it is great to have options!

Evan in Paso


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