26 4 door what colour should the engine be?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: 26 4 door what colour should the engine be?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By n maver on Thursday, September 03, 2015 - 08:20 am:

First of all thank you in advance for all those that reply this is a great Club with incredible knowledge throughout the membership.

The other question that I have is on a gray car with black fenders is it likely that the wheels came from the factory in a bright red colour?

N


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, September 03, 2015 - 08:56 am:

Here is a good article on colors and variations on 1926/27 Improved Fords: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/1926-27H.htm

In general the 26's went through some evolution during production from august 1925 through july '26. Early Fordors were painted maroon on the body and had 21" wood wheels either black or varnished as a dealer option. All fenders and such were black on all T's from 1914 on.

In the spring of 1926 wire wheels became available as options you could buy at the dealer, swapping your wood wheels out. Wire wheels were available in Black, Casino Red, Emerald Green, Straw and Drake Green. Sometime in 1926 the paint process was changed to Pyroxilin and other colors were available. By then the Fordor was delivered in Fawn Grey. Engines were still black until the 1927 model was introduced by august, then engines got fancier painted in a brownish green with black parts and nickeled bolts. It may have been with the 1927 model the possibility came to get any closed car in any of the three colors Royal Maroon, Highland Green and Fawn Gray?

What's your frame # on the top of the frame by the front passengers feet? If made late in '26 your car might be a 1927 model?

And to finally answer your question - if your car is a '27 made late in 1926 there's a chance it came from the factory Fawn Grey with black fenders and black wire wheels as standard, but it's also possible it never came out to the streets until the dealer swapped the std black wheels to Casino Red wheels at the buyers wish.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Whelihan Danbury, WI on Thursday, September 03, 2015 - 09:16 am:

To address the color of the engine: My '26 Tudor had a November 1925 build date. It is the original engine (Number matching the original title that was issued), and never messed with. It was painted a variation of flat black. Parts of it had clearly faded with heat and oxidation, so it may have originally been something like a low-gloss black.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, September 03, 2015 - 09:28 am:

Just looked at your profile - since you're from Scotland there are additional differences in production to mention. All of the info in the above post applies to US production. British/european production differed a great deal.. Drop frame axles with above the axle wishbones were used together with US spindles in 26/27. Fenders were special in european production due to the lowered chassis. The rear frame crossmember had a 2" higher arc than US 26/27's so the rear floor was also different.
Regarding paints it seems all late closed bodied UK built cars had two tone paint jobs, see this earlier post:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/463052.html?1406077744

But finding an improved Fordor in UK may be hard since they were slow sellers due to the horsepower tax.. The copenhagen built cars we got over here in Sweden were also lowered like the UK cars, but painted in a single color on the body as far as I have seen.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Thursday, September 03, 2015 - 12:12 pm:

Roger, with all due respect; the original question was "what color should the ENGINE be", not "what color should the car be"?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, September 03, 2015 - 12:28 pm:

Terry, there are two questions in the first posting, and both are answered in my 8:56 posting, the engine color answer may be hard to find among all the words that I thought were needed to discuss the possibility of a grey Fordor with black fenders and red wire wheels :-)

(Message edited by Roger K on September 03, 2015)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By n maver on Thursday, September 03, 2015 - 02:10 pm:

This is the car in question originally from the USA





N


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, September 03, 2015 - 02:31 pm:

This original 1927 Ford sales brochure (USA) shows the sedan in Fawn Gray. So a touring in 1927 could have been painted this color too.



This is print ink color, may not represent the real color.

As for wires. The colors were available as desired.



Your gray color on the touring, with red wheels, could be similar to factory color hue. But we all can never know, as there are no Factory color chips, and no Factory pigment formulas for the paint color for bodies.

p.s. I like your gray touring. Have one too!
My '27 is painted from color formula used on 1913 White car chassis. Mix is similar to WWI battleship gray. Dixie is a rebel. :-)



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, September 03, 2015 - 02:41 pm:

Oh, that's a touring - when talking about four doors on a T it's usually about a closed car, a Fordor in Ford terminology. But the 26/27 Tourings had four doors so OK :-)

1926 USA made tourings were still all black. They were never grey from the factory. Wire wheels could be ordered as an dealer option from early calendar 1926. Later during 1926, maybe by the 1927 model year, open cars could be ordered in Gunmetal Blue or Phoenix Brown - black was no longer available. So this car isn't totally original, but if you like it and if the price is attractive, the color shouldn't stop you (it wouldn't stop me if I liked a car and had the money)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, September 03, 2015 - 02:45 pm:

Ok Dan, maybe someone with connections in Dearborn could special order a 1927 Touring in Fawn Grey since they used it for the closed models. And I do like Dixie, it runs great :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, September 03, 2015 - 05:27 pm:

Thanks Roger.

As for color, the closed cars were green or maroon early '26. Late '26 (maybe May or June) the lacquer paint process was on line in many of the factory mfg. branches, which assembled bodies and painted them. So open cars could have been painted prior to the "1927" model year.
Service Bulletin Aug. 1926 relates to dealers the process to lacquer paint bodies. One can assume the factory branches were painting with lacquer prior to that date, so late '26 would be correct for colors on bodies. Late being I think May or June. And open cars included.

Only way to know is a serial number suspected original to the motor in an original open car painted in original pyroxylin. :-)

Aug. 1 '26 Wholesale Price List states wire wheels in "Red, Green and Straw", doesn't state in black, but seems reasonable black was painted on wheels too.

Service Bulletin March 1926 says wire wheels are being delivered in limited quanaties...maybe because of the color demands!
Dec 1, 1926 Price list then lists Black, Red, Green, and Straw for wire wheels.

The


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John C Codman on Thursday, September 03, 2015 - 06:07 pm:

My 1927 touring has been repainted green. It was not a frame-off stripped job, it was simply a repaint. I can find no evidence of a previous, different color. As the article stated - the fenders, running boards, radiator shell, and headlight buckets are, and appear to have always been black.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Thursday, September 03, 2015 - 08:15 pm:

Sometime in the '27 model year Ford announced that you could get any color Ford offered on any body style.

There was also the special ordered black cars for companies that already had a fleet of black cars.

My March '26 touring was black.
I painted it green and told everybody it is a '27.
Too many guys ask me if it is an old Army truck. I'm gonna paint it black again. That'll also stop people from telling me, "Henry said", "you can have any color you want as long as it's.....purple."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By n maver on Saturday, September 05, 2015 - 08:19 am:

I have to thank everyone that has responded and having done the homework I have a far better understanding of the car colours my chassis number is 14129257 I'm still not sure on colour of engine should I paint it black or dark green similar to what model A would have had ?
N


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Warren on Saturday, September 05, 2015 - 09:17 am:

N, your car was made in July of 26 so it looks like the engine should be black, but in August of 26 the 27 models came out and the engines were done in the greenish / brown color. Sooooo, could your car have been one that the engine was painted the late color.. I think it was possible because they may have been trying it at that time. When they built the first pickup,s in 25 there were things that were 24 style and 26 style. Henry was good about using his parts up, testing new ideas, and using what was available, may-be even the new color for the engine. Most engine rebuild-er,s will paint the engines, some paint them a special color so to distinguish it from others. The gray with the red wheels and the green engine, appears to have been a possibility. It is a great looking car, unless the paint needs repair, I would leave it for now and enjoy it. :^)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Saturday, September 05, 2015 - 11:44 am:

When I had my 26 engine rebuilt the company said they paint all 26 engines black and 27 engines in the funky green color.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Redelman, Kouts, IN on Saturday, September 05, 2015 - 01:05 pm:

Hi N, My all original 26 fordor 1407424x engine is black. I just finished pulling it apart to replace the lifters and two piece valves and to check all bearings and recharge the magnets along with installing new bands. I just cleaned and did not paint anything so as to keep it appearing as original with the remnants of the black paint still showing. Steve


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Saturday, September 05, 2015 - 02:59 pm:

Steve's 14,074,24x was made august 5, 1926. There is a note in Ford's archives that they began painting the engines in Pyroxilin on July 27, or somewhere between 14,022,242 and 14,028,948. Maybe only part of the production was painted in color in the beginning?

N Mavers engine #14,129,257 was produced even further into Ford's model year 1927 at August 18, and was probably painted in a olive green a bit darker than Model A green. Does the car still have the original engine? Headlights mounted directly to a headlight bar is another 1927 sign. Most states would have titled it as a 1926 since it was on the road months before 1926 ended.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By n maver on Tuesday, September 08, 2015 - 04:58 pm:

This car is incredibly original engine and chassis number matching.So the consensus of opinion seems to be paint the engine and dark green ?
N


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, September 08, 2015 - 05:24 pm:

Here are pictures of a cut out engine at the Henry Ford Museum. It may have been prepared from a '27 engine when new and painted with the correct paint. All the years since then may have changed the original appearance. This prepared engine has been ground smoother than a standard production engine. If you have the nickeled head bolts with a rounded head that's specific for 1927, then I'd say it may well have been this color when new:
Engine 1
Engine 2Engine 3


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By n maver on Wednesday, September 09, 2015 - 08:28 am:

Rodger thank you very much I will take a picture of my engine and post it and we can see what we think

N


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Thursday, September 10, 2015 - 01:18 am:

Here is my 1926 coupe engine painted with Ford Green high temp engine paint obtained in an aerosol can from Snyders. It may or may not be correct, but I liked the color and painted my engine with it. I reasoned that the above museum engine had probably faded to the present dull green from what it originally was, which may have been closer to the Ford green engine paint supplied by Snyders. The pan, hogshead, starter generator, fan, coil box and horn are painted with high temp gloss black engine paint. Jim Patrick


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