ok so I am about ten minutes from wearing the foil hat right now...this is my story, the names have been changed to protect the mentally deficient. Bought a 1924 touring, sat for twenty years without a non op so back fees racked up to about four hundred bucks, seller was kind enough to split the cost(great guy!!) pay DMV get new title in my name. The car hasn't run for some time and is now sitting on private ( I think there is still such a thing) property and I begin the process of freshening it up to a point of starting the engine. About four months into this receive from the dmv a notice that they are going to suspend my registration for lack of insurance, now I will say that on the day I finally was able to register this car after three hours at the CA dmv surrounded by the unhappy employees and feeling a bit drained myself , forgot the whole notion of insurance as I knew the car was no where near hitting the road yet ,grabbed my paperwork and headed for miller time! SO I being the young "leave to Beaver" that I am go to AAA to see If I can help the situation...a "statement of facts " submitted to the state should help, so I am told..so great we do that...alas it doesn't stick and poor Theodore Cleaver is once again a felon on the run!!! So it stays in suspension until renewal comes up at which point, now I should add in the meantime I have gotten the car running and really need to start road testing it so.., the renewal comes in with standard fees and proof of insurance, "hey great pay to play no problem" send check off to Sacramento. Two weeks later Jerry sends me the additional $14. fee for suspension.. "ok Jerry here ya go" another check. No need for proof of insurance as it states they already have this now and just need this last little fee..no sweat guys I get it, but wait there's more NOW I get a NEW notice saying it's still suspended but for no stated reason and my info doesn't work being punched into THEIR computer system. So LIL Beaver is still crying in his non alcoholic PTA approved punch....isn't it a shame when good government go's bad!!! I will put on my tin pants and try again...thought you guys might get a hoot out of this little tale...they can't stop me cuz I am used to getting my hands dirty!!! thanks and sorry for the needed rant
Sounds like the DMV's of Kahleefournya and Nevada share dna.......
Florida told me that there was no such car as a Chalmers-Detroit because it was not in their computer. I assured them that there were lots of cars that would not be in their computer but that they could certainly add them to their records. How foolish of me! After six month of going back and forth with more bureaucrats than I would care to encounter in ten lifetimes they told me that I could register the car as an Allis Chalmers tractor because that was in their computer. So, now I am driving the only 1910 Allis Chalmers seven passenger touring tractor in the world because the Florida DMV says so! Ya can't fix stupid!
I was born and raised in So Cal and moved to Indiana several years ago. I may not be able to drive my T's year round, but I can tell you the BMV (as its known here) is 180 degrees from the CA BMV. Its actually quite a pleasant experience. They say please and thank you. They even added a new T class of Tourabout for me as they had never had one before.
Let me get this straight .... you expected something different ???
You must be in comedy !
After many years I have learned how to work the Ca. DMV. Submit an application for replacement title. Give no info not specifically asked for. This is your car and you have lost the title. You will have to have the car verified by a DMV clerk or they may send you to the CHP. Either way, be sure you stamp the vin number into the frame rail. There is no reason to prove you own the car when the DMV can't prove you don't. You can start with a title only, so you don't have to have insurance. Then, when you have the title securely in hand, you may proceed with getting the car road ready. I have said this before on this forum but there are public servants at the DMV who consider it a personal and professional failure if you leave with what you came for, be it title or registration for your old car. They are all convinced you are Boyd Coddington there to register a 1932 Ford with no 1932 parts that is worth $$$$$$.
I think legitimate hobbyists who need help to navigate the DMV gauntlet should consult specialists who are available.
Fellows, they are the same all over the world!!!!
When I imported my LHD Tudor, it had to undergo an identity check before it could be inspected. I knew these ropes, and went well prepared. I even had a copy of the Federal Approval to Import. The inspection went well, but the Approval papers were not the originals. I pointed out that there were 7 separate vehicles listed on the Importer's manifest. How could we all have originals?
They decided they would accept, by fax, a copy of the original sent directly to them from the Import agent. It came in while I was reloading the car on the trailer, ready to take it around the corner for the roadworthy inspection. It was exactly as I had already presented!!
Around the corner we go. First question, "Where's your registration permit so we can test drive the car?"
I had already checked this out and was told trailering it to the facility was OK, as nobody would know how to drive it anyway. Not for this smart cookie though. "I could drive it" When I asked him where the throttle was, he conceded that it might not be a good idea to drive it after all.
It passed the inspection OK and then this character came around with a camera taking all sorts of shots. They do this with left hand drive cars they register, because you are not allowed to convert it to RHD later on. He kindly informed me that the paperwork would be sent out within two weeks!!!!
5 weeks later I got impatient enough to phone them to find out what the delay was. After two holds of 35 minutes total, he found the papers on a desk. They couldn't send them out because there was no address on the form. The inspector had not filled that box in.
No matter that they had these details on the application for the inspection for which they charged me $265. No matter that the receipt no. for that payment was on the inspection form. No matter that the receipt number for the identity check was also listed. No sense in asking the senseless to use their senses. I refrained from posting a nasty letter of complaint until the papers were with me, lest they get nasty with me for having the temerity to complain.
They are legendary for their incompetence and rudeness.
Allan from down under
really I tried to offer as little info as possible, I know truths and information are kryptonite to gov officials.... I shouldn't be so mean but it is frustrating when you ask five different people at the DMV a question and get five different answers , who do they think they are the IRS??? trying to laugh to keep from crying thanks to all for the support
Unfortunately, the DMV also screwed you by charging you delinquent non-op fees as you are exempt from having to pay them under California Vehicle Code section 4604(d)(3) which states a vehicle as described in California Vehicle Code section 5004 is exempt from delinquent fees. Section 5004 describes "historical vehicles" and all Model T Fords qualify. I have been down this road several times with the uneducated DMV folks and have never had to pay delinquent non-op fees. I would go down there and demand your money back.
Mr.Grundy, I'm going to tell a little story that may not make you feel better but let you know that misery loves company.
I bought my '65 Mustang from a lady in Las Vegas, NV.
In speaking with her I asked how many cars do they own to which she replied "Oh we have lots of cars" <<< that will be important in a moment.
She told me a story about switching insurance on all their cars to GEICO.
She sold another car and told GEICO to cancel the insurance on THAT car but they canceled their entire policy!
Nevada DMV made her PROVE that EVERY CAR had been continually insured over the previous 5 YEARS or there would be some horrendous fine to pay.
She also told me I needed to return the plates on the Mustang to her as she HAD to surrender them to the state (The car spent one Winter garaged in NW Wisconsin at the time I bought it).
I have known two guys that found out what Mark just reported and they went back and got a refund.
I had it work twice for me.
The second time was not too long ago.
I decided I would not got through trying to tell them about 4606. They just argue and tell me I'm wrong.
I went to pay the renewal and the late fee when the clerk said I didn't need to pay late fees as the car was over 25 years old!
She said the fact that the computer took everything was proof she was right.
I have never got off that easy again.
Mr Grundy, If the car has sat for over 5 years there is no back fees. Scott
Texas has year, make, model and body style. My Touring is listed as 1925, Ford, Model T, 3-door respectively. Their computer didn't have Touring as a body style. (I now think I should have said it was a convertible.) Thankfully, we don't have a "non-operational" penalty and have a "title only" option so I didn't need insurance or registration (tags) for that. I just transferred it to my name.
To get it on the road, I'll just need insurance, safety inspection and run paperwork down to the county tax office to get tags.
Erik got it never give anything beside what they ask for not asked not an issue
Worst I had is they asked for a 50 state title search and pay the fee for it
Here in NV I get a Vin number inspection from city cops or highway patrol and get there badge number and alway go in asking for a replacement title
Again worst thing you can do is give them a story true or false and once you get them to raise that RED flag your dead in the water I done about 15 T's I'm the 1st registered owner
guys thanks for all the feedback. Not sure I made myself clear or perhaps I did and need to do a follow up for potential refund. I did transfer the title at time of purchase and have pink slip in my name, they also gave me tags at the time, so not sure as to where I might stand or if I made that clear in my original post. As far as I can tell I have everything in order as I have title and insurance, also paid all they asked for but still in limbo. Mind you this is a renewal at this time, I also believe that if I get the right clerk at the dmv who is willing to do their job could probably be fixed in five minutes it's just a crap shoot down there...sad how that works
You are very correct. The CITY of Oroville went through hell getting their own 1922 Buick re-registered. Had the wrong clerk who wanted to "take up" the Horseless Carriage plates--fortunately the city clerk wouldn't turn them over. Made the city generate a new pink slip, even though they had the old one (no change of ownership, just wasn't registered for many year because it didn't run, and the city wanted to save money). Brand new plate, brand new title. Well, the City Clerk went back and the DMV clerk she saw told her the whole problem was the "THAT clerk" (Why does the guy still have a job when even the office knows he's a problem?). And now the car is back to being registered with the Horseless Carriage plates it's had for decades (DMV code clearly states that Horseless Carriage plates are registered to the car, not the owner and go with the car).
And YES, your T is exempt from the delinquent non-op fees & ALL the clerks should know that by now! (But they don't!). Go for the refund!!
VAL quick list the car on e-bay clean title in hand rare one of a kind 1910 Allis Chalmers seven passenger touring tractor, that ought to fund your retirement
Heck. I've had 4 titles sent back to me. Each time they send the title back as a 2011 torpedo. Twice I went to the state and they blamed the county and guess who the county blamed. I have to carry the old papers around in case I get pulled over.
Pick up the phone. Dial (800) 345-8290. You will need to know:
1. Your name
2. Your address
3. The VIN number on your car
4. Where your credit card is
The nice lady on the phone will insure your car for about $125 per year. After that your problems - self inflicted I might add - will be over.
Additionally, per the California Vehicle code, Horseless Carriage plates are issued to vehicles manufactured through 1922. Vehicles manufactured after 1922 are issued Historical Vehicle plates.
When going through the process five years ago, I was surprised to encounter no difficulty at all about settling the paperwork on my newly purchased Model T Ford (of which, granted, there are a whole lot more than Chalmers-Detroits). I arrived at the DMV loaded for bear with all kinds of proofs, photos and documentation, but the lady behind the information counter handed me a single form and said, "Okay, just fill this out, sign the bottom and wait for us to call your number." When I was called, another lady tapped a few keystrokes into her computer, collected my fee, handed me a fresh registration and said, "You're all set. Have a nice day."
In Hauppauge, Long Island, the DMV is run by professionally polite civil servants who give the impression of knowing what they're doing and when they finish the rubber-stamping and record-keeping, the outcome is generally satisfactory. While it's true they don't go too far out of their way to impart that warm, fuzzy feeling, I'm not there to make friends, but to keep my bureaucratically pitfallen horseless carriage on the road. So far, so good.
Speaking parenthetically; my Flivver came with a new dashboard which had no data plate and so, as long as I didn't know the body number, it made sense from the point of view of one who would rather discourage increased levels bureaucratic participation to stamp the car's engine number into a fresh data plate and mount it to the new dash. And yeah, maybe it'd be a good idea to stamp that number into the frame rail, too.
G. R. I bet my touring tractor would be perfect for pulling your Airstream or plowing the lower 40,
I can't believe the horror stories I hear of some of you guys in dealing with your DMV or the local cops. It's crazy. Think I'll stay my @$$ in South Georgia. We don't have to deal with that crap here. We don't title vehicles older than x number of years (20 maybe?). You want to register a Model T you bought out of state? You take it down to the courthouse. A deputy comes out and looks it over, verifies the VIN is what is on the form you filled out, compliments you on the vehicle, you go back inside and show them your Bill of Sale and the previous owner's registration, and they give you a new tag. Then all the ladies behind the counter want to come out and look at your car. Simple as that.
Insurance? Just as simple. My wife hit a deer in her brand new Mustang. Didn't think it did any damage, so she comes on home. I look the car over and do find damage. Since she didn't THINK there was any damage, she didn't bother calling the sheriff in the county in which this occurred, so no police report. It's 7:00 PM on the Friday before Labor Day. She texts the insurance agent, who calls her back immediately. She says "Honey, you don't need no police report. Just come by the office on Tuesday. As a matter of fact, if you know who you want to fix it, you can go get a quote before you come in." And that's all there is to that.
It just wouldn't do for me to move somewhere that has the kind of problems you guys have.
I had no trouble at all here in Ohio getting my '22 Coupe titled and getting the YOM plates for the car. I bought the car in Pennsylvania at an estate auction and had the car sitting for 10 years in the the garage. It took 6 years for me to rebuild it from the ground up on Sunday afternoons. I went to a local car dealer who is authorized to check vin numbers and they gave me the Ok within minutes. Then I went to DMV with all my paperwork early the next morning, sweating bullets because of the horror stories I read over the years on the forum, and walked up to the counter to the young lady and told her I needed to get a title for a '22 Coupe that I bought 10 years ago in Pennsylvania. The first thing she said is I need to have the Vin number checked by and authorized dealer...I handed her the card the dealer filled out. She then started looking through a hugh book of regulations for titling an out of state car etc, etc. She looked up at me and said I need form #xyz...I handed it to her (it kind of suprized her). Then she went back to the large book and said I need form #rst...I handed it to her. She again was so suprized that she looked at me and said I need to talk to my supervisor...the supervisor came over, looked at the two forms I handed in looked at the stack of papers I had with me and then looked at the young lady and said "Honey, he has more paper work then we do give him his title and quit wasting his time!" The whole event took 15 minutes. I then walked across the hall to get my YOM plates registered to the car and that took 10 minutes. So I spent a total of 25 minutes registering my car after it sat for 10 years.
I went through an Alabama title co. Back in the mid 90's. It worked like a champ. As not to confuse DMV workers; where it says model I put "T". Got my title as usual. Got my insurance. and got my plates. Vintage plates.
The hoop-jumping varies widely among states, and among offices within states, and among the people in those offices. It used to be supremely easy to register an out-of-state car here. All I needed was a bill of sale. Even a hand-written one would do. Now it's a little more complicated. I have to take the vehicle to a certain place on a certain day and pay an officer $10 (cash only) to look at the serial number. Even with that added wrinkle, it's much easier here than in many other places.
ok a quick update...according to DMV Sac phone call all is clear and I can pick up my tags at AAA. I know it's not over til it's over. . but I hope all is well and will hit AAA tomorrow. I want to thank you guys for all the feedback on this and I will(once tags are in hand) try to get a refund on back fees I paid, though it has been a year .Thanks for the info and DMV codes that may help in this...worth a try. The car was purchased at a low enough price that the fees didn't hurt too much and wanted to mention to Glenn that though it is a 24 is registered as a 22 with HC plates.. actually I could care less what it is titled as, as long as it is legal and can be driven on CA roads. Thanks again to all for the support
When I was in the process of getting a title for my 21 Touring which took a bunch since I didn't have any type of paperwork, title or anything other than my word I took some advice and went through a bonded title service that cleared up all the issues.
When I finally got the title a few weeks later from the DMV in Austin it stated the car was a 21
Its a legal valid title so I guess its OK as far as the Texas DMV goes.
Well I have to put my two cents in with my experience today. I went to a title/tag company instead of the Maryland MVA to tag and title the latest acquisition. What a wonderful experience. Cost $100 but well worth the money. What would have been a 3 or 4 hour experience at the MVA and likely would not have got out unscathed was 10 minutes and I was on my way with historic plates and registration ready to go. Wow. I'll do that from now on.
BTW, the new one is not a T but something I've wanted for a long time.
A 1936 Aurburn replica.
Recently a State Trooper stopped to ask if I had noticed anyone across the road loading a lawn tractor on a trailer or on the back of a truck. I looked where he pointed and wondered how any one from our house could see across the road as we have a 12 foot high lilac hedge blocking the view. The trooper did say the women over there had a boy friend when she moved in but had since moved out. At one time in their short time together he did show her that he had bought the lawn tractor and probably came and got it.
The above has nothing to do with registration of a Model T, but I asked him if he would like to see the T. We went into the garage and as I was explaining various things, I asked him if he would verify the vehicle VIN number which was
on the motor. He then said that the Senior New York Trooper put out the word that the Troopers were no longer would be doing that anymore. The paper work says a law officer can do that. He then said that I would need to contact a Motor Vehicle VIN Inspector to come and verify. I am now searching for one and in the meantime I will check the local police if they would come out and verify it for me. Now which police department should I go to? The one in Carthage, Jefferson County, NY or should I go to the Lewis County Sheriff's department since our property is located
in Lewis County
Dennis, we are lucky. My DMV experiences have been about the same, nothing less than actually pleasant! After all, we were getting our beloved cars titled without a hassle. I sure hope no one from the Ohio DMV starts to read these horror stories, as it seems like the bureaucrats love to copy each other!
I am glad I live in Iowa - Iowa loosened up their DMV rules a few years back. No penalties any more for years not registered. When I bought my model T, the lady helping me transfer title brings over a very thick old and tattered book listing vehicle years, makes and models and asks me to find my car. I found the 1925 Ford Runabout with list price of $260, pointed to that, and I was out the door with new title and plates. The YOM plates were easy too - I brought them in and they said they didn't need to see them, just make sure I kept the new plates in the trunk in case there is any question.
About 20 years ago I bought a 26 touring which was a basket case. Just a truck full of rusty parts.
Before I did any work on it I wanted to get title to the car. In our town there is a business which gets cars registered without personally going to the DMV. I had them come out and inspect my "pile" and they got the VIN from the engine. I had a bill of sale from the person from which I bought the "pile". I received the title and registered it as Non-operation until the car was restored 10 years later. Then I got the insurance and put it into operation status. I had no trouble. You need to find someone such as I did. I have heard the AAA will do this for you. Anyway that worked 20 years ago in California. I haven't done one lately, but I did buy one about 6 years ago which VIN did not match the one on the registration, but it was on the previous owners insurance. I took that car to the CHP and had the VIN verified. No problem with that one either.
Mark, Thanks for the info about the Veh Code Sect 4604 d 3. I did not know that existed here before.
In Central Minnesota, the trick is to avoid any attempts at doing business with the DMV in St Cloud. The rest of the little DMV offices in the surrounding counties have always done right by me.
Using a bonded title service will save you grief and misery getting a title.
If you have an old or antique car and you want to use your local DMV to start the process of getting a title ABSOLUTELY DO NOT tell them a long story of how you got the car and any other information other than what is needed on the forms they give you.
This only creates more questions and confusion.
In short a bonded title service KNOWS exactly what you need in your
They know which forms you may or may not need.
I had absolutely no paperwork, bill of sale, title or anything other than my word.
The bonded tile service knew exactly what I needed.
I received the title 3 weeks later.