My package from Baltic

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: My package from Baltic
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, September 11, 2015 - 01:42 pm:


Yesterday evening when I brought in the mail I found this on my front porch.




A 30 x 3 rear and a pair of 30 x 3 fronts. Now I have to build a rotisserie for painting them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, September 11, 2015 - 01:51 pm:

Steve

Those look beautiful!!

Don't paint!!! Varnish 'em in high shiny marine spar.... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, September 11, 2015 - 02:26 pm:

Nope. They'll be the way God and Henry intended. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Friday, September 11, 2015 - 02:49 pm:

Did Mr Frugal win the lottery?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Friday, September 11, 2015 - 04:29 pm:

I must say I admire your restraint in not varnishing them. It takes a real man to paint a wheel as "God and Henry intended". The only thing prettier than a new wheel with the beauty of the natural grain brought out by a varnish, urethane or even tongue oil is an old wheel with it's aged wood and a little original black paint. (Photo taken before painting.)



The flash of sunlight on each black spoke as it turns is a mighty nice thing also. Every one has to make their choice. I've always painted mine and never regretted it. Have fun making the rotisserie.

Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, September 11, 2015 - 04:35 pm:

Steve

Then build a 'vat' that can be raised and lowered which contains the paint, while the wheel is spun by it's hub. That is the way Henry did it!



Wheel is spun at 720 rpm's. Then dried for second coat when the wheel is spun at 540 rpm's and then rolled down to the storage room to dry completely.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 01:08 am:

Wow! I didn't know they spun them that fast.

I'm only doing a few wheels, so I think I'll skip the vat part.
:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n Los Angeles CA on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 01:33 am:

WOW, real nice


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 03:31 am:

Steve,

Good on you for going black. And to make the bare wood lovers happy, give that crate
a nice coat of spar varnish so all can admire the beauty of the wood ! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine in Australia on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 03:48 am:

Henry Ford didn't believe in being half-pregnant. If you don't use the EXACT same paint formula from the 1920s as well as the device shown above to paint them; you might as well paint them metallic pink. And while you're at it, there's a guy on ebay selling bottled air from the 1920s you can use for your tyres.

It's great fun putting on a purist hat...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By n maver on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 12:34 pm:

What's the listing number for bottled air from the 1920s????????????????/ .

N


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 01:17 pm:

Steve,

Congratulations on your rebuilt wheels from Stutzman. They should last for years and years with the care our cars receive today. I don't know many folks that park their T's outside year round in all sorts of weather etc.

I'm glad you will be finishing your wheels the way you will enjoy the most. I know you have been working hard for several years now to slowly replace several items on your 1915 to make it closer to the way it most likely was when it left the factory. Some folks won't understand your desire to do that. But we each have the canvas of our car to give it the perspective we most desire. There are so many variations that Henry produced and even more that we can produce. For many of us that is why we need more than one T. I can't exactly make my speedster the way Henry produced it -- because to my knowledge he didn't have a normal production speedster. (Although Rob's 640 Model K Roadster as well as the 1911 open runabout & torpedo runabout are really close.)

Several folks have done different ways to rotate the wheels. A search may turn them up or just asking folks for their recommendations will give you some good ideas.

Thanks for sharing your latest update on your T good luck with the painting.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 01:24 pm:

Stutzmann does fabulous work! Those wheels are nice Steve.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 01:59 pm:

Just how big was that winning ticket ? ;o)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 09:22 pm:

When I read the title I put "the" in front of Baltic and wondered why he was getting a package from The Baltic States. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By brass car guy on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 11:14 pm:

I hope Stutzman did your wheels better than the ones I purchased for my 1912. If you remember they attatched the fellows with countersunk machine screws up through the fellow and nuts and flat washers on top of the fellows.

To correct their poor workmanship I had to tig weld the counter sunk holes they drilled in my rims and use dowling to plug the holes drilled in the fellows. The counter sunk holes were drilled so deep there was no strength left in the rim. My originals were riveted which is what I expected to get back. I might also mention that the "countersunk screws were not evenly spaced around the rim and they were not all drilled in the center of the fellow.

I really expected better like the other sets of wheels I had them make for me.

just sayin'

brasscarguy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Sunday, September 13, 2015 - 04:10 am:

Hap, my T lives outside in all kinds of weather. That's how he got his name: Russell T. Phored "Rusty"!

The nice polyurethane I put on Rusty's wheels about two years ago is purtnear gone now!

TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Sunday, September 13, 2015 - 04:15 am:

Oops, that photo was from about ten years ago before I went back to original equipment: 1927 wood 21" wheels!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Sunday, September 13, 2015 - 05:34 am:

brass car guy, did you contact Stutzman about the problems with your wheels? Maybe they had a new guy, or who knows what. That just doesn't sound like the service that they provide, at least that has been reported on here. I have always subscribed to the saying, "If you like our service, tell others. If not, tell us." That has always worked well for me as a self employed welder. I would for sure have told them about it. JMHO. just sayin" <g> Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Sunday, September 13, 2015 - 08:27 am:

Steve - Is that the crate you made to ship them in or did you drop them off?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, September 13, 2015 - 09:02 am:

Terry,

Thanks for posting the photo of "Rusty." I suspect you and a few others who may leave their running Model Ts outside are the exception. But perhaps the folks I know who put the more modern vehicle outside and the antique car inside the garage etc. are in the minority? I kept my Model A Fords outside for several years, but that was because I did not have a garage at the time. And since they were my primary vehicle -- I couldn't leave them in a storage shed as they were the car I drove to work. But that was about 30 years ago. They are all inside now.

Of course having "Rusty" outside in California may be better than inside storage in some locations. Great looking roadster pickup!

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Sunday, September 13, 2015 - 09:39 am:

Steve, beautiful wheels.

brasscarguy -- didn't you previously say that there was a middle-man involved in your Stutzman order rather than you going to Stutzman direct? Given the outstanding service I, and many others, have received from him, it seems there is a key component missing from your experience.

He has done multiple sets for me that were exactly what I ordered and I have visited his place in person and seen the work in progress, in addition to many sets in the packing room waiting to be shipped, and nothing was as you described.

I hope each time that someone makes a post about their delight with their new Stutzman wheels that you aren't going to use it as a platform to pull old bones out of the closet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Sunday, September 13, 2015 - 09:46 am:

I've had Stutzmann do several sets of wheels, including the ones for my 1912. They don't use screws to attach the fellows to the rim. They use rivets on all of my wheels, just like Ford did.

Are you sure Stutzmann did those wheels BFG? That sounds completely out of character for them to do. They do fabulous work, and they do it just like Ford did. I can't fathom why they or anyone else would install wood screws like that, unless they were told to do so aforehand.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John C Codman on Sunday, September 13, 2015 - 12:02 pm:

Hi Hap, My Hagarty insurance requires that my T be kept inside.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, September 13, 2015 - 12:02 pm:

I have to agree with Walter and Royce. Those boogered-up wheels acquired through a middleman don't conform with Stutzman's reputation or my own experience. The new wheels I received the other day are exactly like originals except the wood is new. I was careless when I sent my hubs, rims, and other parts to Ohio (yes, Dan, my crate). I failed to notice one of the rims was warped. Stutzman didn't just use it. He phoned and had me send him a better one. BCG, are you sure your wheels came from him? Did you ask him about them? If I had paid hundreds for the kind of work you describe, I don't think I'd try to fix it myself. I'd want to contact the perpetrator and have him make it right.

While I inherited my Dad's reluctance to part with a dollar, sometimes I'm willing to fork over big gobs of money for something I want. In this case I applied John Regan's reasoning when he suggested I get a new fuel tank. That is to think of the money spent as an annual expense spread over the years you have the car. If this car and I are together for ten years, I spent $16 a year for that new tank. If we survive twenty years together, that's $8 a year.

I sent Stutzman almost all the metal parts for these wheels. The hubs, plates, and rims I picked up at auctions and swap meets. I would estimate the cost of those at no more than $100. It was really less, but I'll call it that. The felloe plates, rivets, nuts, and bolts drop shipped from Lang's were $76.50. Fed Ex for my parts to Ohio was about $95. Stutzman supplied the wood, labor, and valve stem tubes. The cost for those was $525. UPS shipping to me was $135. So the cost of these wheels was $100 + $95 + $76.50 + $525 + $135, a total of $931.50. That's $310.50 a wheel. In my book that's a lot of dough, but I think if you check what other wheel shops charge you'll find that it's considerably less than I would have spent elsewhere. And spreading it out over ten years like the gas tank, I spent $93.15 a year.

Why only three wheels? I have one original that's still good.
:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Monday, September 14, 2015 - 08:13 pm:

Stutzman did all four wheels for my 1914. I'm lucky enough to live close enough to drive to his place (amazing to see).Driving from into Amish country is very interesting, especially at night. His workmanship is just terrific and his prices are reasonable. Plus, they are very nice there. And Steve, I'm with you. I had my wheels painted black "as God and Henry intended" and they compliment the car better (in my opinion) than natural finish, which I find visually jarring.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Tuesday, September 15, 2015 - 12:01 am:

Marty's right ... if you can find an excuse to drive to Stutzman's farm ... do it! It's worth the trip and the cheeses and sausages you can get nearby are a bonus !!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warwick Landy Traralgon Australia on Tuesday, September 15, 2015 - 04:00 am:

I have not long ago received my new wheels done by Calimers wheel shop. New rims from McLaren and new hub bolts and nuts from Langs. Mine are also being painted black just the way my Dad put them on the car 40 years ago. Be careful Steve, the spokes are very thirsty! I neglected to seal them before priming. The had two coats of primer and 5 top coats and sanding in between before finally eliminating all the grain marks. I will try t post some pictures.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, September 15, 2015 - 04:36 am:

Why paint wood wheels so smooth that they look like steel spokes? I don't get it. I seriously doubt that they were done that way originally. I much prefer to have the wood grain show through the paint. JMHO> Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Tuesday, September 15, 2015 - 05:35 am:

I had run my un-restored 1915 Touring for about 5 years on the original wood wheels when the left rear and right front started to bark with each revolution. I shimmed the spokes of the left rear. But close inspection of the right front showed that three adjacent spokes were cracked about half way through. The cracks were very old - clearly from some hard impact years ago. I made the command decision to make three new spokes and install them in the wheels. I made them out of cedar and the results turned out great. The wheel was tight and quiet and ran true. I ran that wheel for one full season and put about 3,000 miles on it. At the end of the season, it was still nice and tight. But the left rear started making noise again so I broke down and had all four of them re-wooded ..(saving the old ones). Since the car was un-restored, I didn't want to paint the new wheels glossy black. So, we left the original paint on the hubs and rims but the hardest thing I ever had to do was put flat black paint on those new, beautiful spokes!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Tuesday, September 15, 2015 - 08:18 am:

Ford carefully painted wheels. Each wheel was sanded on every spoke until the last days of wood spoke wheels used in 1927. This is a middle of the model year 1912 wheel, perhaps around March or April 1912. Notice all the pin striping, painted bolt heads, and the black background on the hub cap around the Ford script.



The same wheel in context:


This photo is property of Ford Photographic services used here under my license.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine in Australia on Tuesday, September 15, 2015 - 03:07 pm:

OT but Steve, any idea how heavy each wheel is? Just wondering how heavy original wheels are compared to the new 21" alloy wheels.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Tuesday, September 15, 2015 - 04:20 pm:

I have freshly wooded fronts and rears handy with no rubber on them. They are about 22lbs. and 24lbs. respectively.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Karl Gilchrist- New Zealand on Tuesday, September 15, 2015 - 06:39 pm:

The Purist thing is real tough for me. I like my cars to look original and I would never run one of my cars with a non period accessory on show or without an original toolkit. My dilemma at the moment is I have a 1934 Standard Fordor V8 which differs from a Deluxe in a number of ways including not having a burr walnut dash and garnishings. Already the car has had a extra horn, extra rear light and cowl lights installed (which are all deluxe features and look like they were done years ago ? as an option when new) it still has a plain painted dash. I love the 34 wood and I am torn with the desire to keep the (now rare Standard) car original or woodgrain it to give me the maximum pleasure !-Karl


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jesse L. Ashcraft on Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 12:27 pm:

>>>Nope. They'll be the way God and Henry intended. :-)<<<

Hi Steve - Would you say your spokes from Stutzman are eliptical or round? Do you recall if the wheels you had redone were originally Kelsey or Hayes wheels with the rounded felloe edges?

If you happened to take the hubs off when finishing the wood, did you notice if the front wheels were "dished" where the inside end at the base of the spoke is chamfered a bit?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jesse L. Ashcraft on Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 12:32 pm:

>>>I'm lucky enough to live close enough to drive to his place (amazing to see).<<<

Hi Marty -

Do you or Bud happen to remember how to get there from Baltic? Google maps or MapQuest isn't finding 33656 County Road 12.

I suppose I could ask for directions to the wheelwright when I get to Baltic but I'm a man.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Putnam, Bluffton, Ohio on Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 01:11 pm:

From Downtown Baltic: It is 5 miles.
Baltic, OH 43804

Head south on Ray St N toward E Main St
128 ft

Turn right at the 1st cross street onto OH-651 W/E Main St
Continue to follow OH-651 W
4.0 mi

Continue straight onto Co Rd 12
0.1 mi

Turn left onto Co Hwy 12/Co Hwy 69/Co Rd 12/Co Rd 69
Continue to follow Co Rd 12
Destination will be on the left
0.9 mi
33656 County Road 12
Baltic, OH 43804


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Putnam, Bluffton, Ohio on Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 01:14 pm:

From Downtown Baltic: It is 5 miles.
Baltic, OH 43804

Head south on Ray St N toward E Main St
128 ft

Turn right at the 1st cross street onto OH-651 W/E Main St
Continue to follow OH-651 W
4.0 mi

Continue straight onto Co Rd 12
0.1 mi

Turn left onto Co Hwy 12/Co Hwy 69/Co Rd 12/Co Rd 69
Continue to follow Co Rd 12
Destination will be on the left
0.9 mi
33656 County Road 12
Baltic, OH 43804

Google maps says 10 minutes in light traffic, they don't mention horses or buggys.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 01:18 pm:

message by n maver on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 12:34 pm:

What's the listing number for bottled air from the 1920s????????????????/ .

===============================================

If anyone can direct me to 1920, I'll pack my stuff and go. I promise
to make contact and send back all the 1920 air you need, OK ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gilbert V. I. Fitzhugh on Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 02:55 pm:

Burger - Don't need surgery or get an infection.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jesse L. Ashcraft on Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 04:46 pm:

Thanks Jack -

Have a good weekend!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 05:50 pm:

That's weird. My Sony GPS took me right to the place.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Skingley ......Westland, Michigan on Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 06:48 am:

Last year I put new wheels on my 13 Runabout, painting them was hard to do after putting spar varnish on them. I like the original look with the gray tires.......I too want to keep updating the maintenance with the right look......I just can't get myself to paint the brass horn.......black.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 08:52 am:

Jesse, the spokes are elliptical. 1" x 1.190" at the felloes. They weren't rewooded. They were made up from collected metal parts I sent to Stutzman. I chose Hayes joint plates for them. No dish. You could call them fantasy wheels. They're round-felloe wheels for my 1915, but I used 1917-1918 hubs for the fronts because they have holes for the speedometer gear but are sturdier than earlier hubs so I don't have to worry about Timkens splitting them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 08:58 am:



For varnishing the rear wheels, all you need is a vice, a hunk of wooden dowel, two plastic washers and two cotter pins. _With this setup, you can easily flip the wheel over for easier brushing access to either side of the wheel when applying the varnish or paint.



For the front wheels, the best thing might be to clamp into that same vice a junked front spindle (which would be cheaper to buy from a parts dealer than a roadworthy unit). _The advantage of this setup is that, unlike a wooden dowel, it wouldn't disturb the ball bearings in the hub (your car being a '15). _The disadvantage is that you'd have to reach over the rim to brush the back of the spokes because it wouldn't allow you to quickly flip the wheel over.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 09:03 am:

My Garmin actually gets "lost" out there in that neck of the woods, yet Google Maps on my phone takes me anywhere around there I want to go. I had to use it last spring to pick up a wheel there as road crews had virtually every road surrounding Noah's place closed. I actually had to beg the guys to let me go through to get it! Detours around there aren't marked and you really go way out of your way. Took me half an hour to get to his place from the point where I would've turned and got there in less than two minutes. But I made it!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jesse L. Ashcraft on Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 09:05 am:

>>>That's weird. My Sony GPS took me right to the place.<<<

Maybe someday, someone will gift me one of those. I still use an old flip phone and have a computer in my house and I think I'm living in the 21st century but I'm really just a Luddite.

After Jack's post and a little tinkering, I was able to get Google Maps to show me the way.


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