Looks Like Another motor Has to Come Out This Winter

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Looks Like Another motor Has to Come Out This Winter
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 12:34 am:

Ah the joys of owning 90 + year old cars..:-)..After doing some basic maintenance on the T today i decided to pull the trans cover to check the filter and clean the magnet. Like usual there was not much to clean, so i was happy till i decided to check the play in the triple gears which have been somewhat noisy since i bought the car, especially in reverse. Well, what a way to ruin your weekend. I found lots of play in the gears which leads me to believe the bushings have probably seized on the pins allowing them to spin in the gears,..bummer. The worst part is the car runs absolutely perfect aside from this potentially very serious problem. So here is my question to all the T gurus that reside here..Since in all likely hood i have to tear it down, what would you do to make it "your perfect T Motor"? I'm thinking Scat crank, Prus head, and a Stipe
cam..what grind?..The motor already has aluminum pistons and i think modern SS steel valves. What would you do to make it the best it can be,..Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin in South Africa on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 06:38 am:

Can non model T gurus chime in? 😀

If I could add my ,02 then.... To make the best motor better I believe I'd go scat crank, Chaffin or Stipe 280, winfield carb and intake, Mceachern triple gears, cam and crank gears, and I can vouch also for a cnc machined transmission shaft, drums, drum shafts, bushings etc. I remade my entire transmission bar the clutch plate cover. Everything is balanced and we ran the gears with timesaver to wear them in prior to final assembly.

Balance everything to within a mosquitoes leg hair and you'll have the smoothest quietest most reliable motor out there. Get the coils done by a professional and she'll fire up without effort and give you miles of fun. She'll go like the clappers too.

That's what I would do.

Cheers
Justin


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 06:51 am:

The question is,
How much are you willing to spend?

If you have unlimited funds and are willing to spend it, go all the way. (Then let me become your son!)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Mazza on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 09:25 am:

If your going to rebuild with scat crank and stipe cam, it would be smart to take it over to j and m. That would be the ultimate build. You could also tear it apart and have them address just what you need done.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 04:19 pm:

I would build a new engine from scratch...leave the old one complete. All of the suggestions are good but if you want it done complete, it would be a waste of a perfectly good engine to make all those mods. Do it right and enjoy the experience and learn a lot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 08:09 pm:

Agree with John M just fix this issue if she's running good rebiulders a second would almost be as cheap as redoing the one you got


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 08:20 pm:

Thanks guys for the tips, i appreciate it...David, am definitely going to J+M, i hear they do great work, and its not far from where i live.

Well it certainly is disheartening to have to yank my motor after only owning the car 18 Months, but i guess it is what it is. The reason i was thinking about using a Scat crank was that with my luck i would fix the triple gears, and then the crank would probably let go..:-( The motor was rebuilt almost 29 years ago, and although it had very little use over the years, i have no idea what problems could be lurking inside. So in the attempt to only do this once before i croak, i was thinking since it had to come apart anyway, i would spend the extra dough to make it as bullet proof as possible, and add a little extra pep for good measure....As the saying goes.."You cant take it with you"..:-)

Below is a short clip of how bad the bushings are..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BglVMweyqz4&feature=youtu.be


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 08:31 pm:

John, correct me if I'm wrong as I have old eyes, you video to me looks like the triple gear is only sliding (floating) on the pin or is it rocking on the pin? if sliding then Your T will go for ever like that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 08:51 pm:

Frank, unfortunately it rocks back and forth quite a bit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Mazza on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 08:51 pm:

Your car always looked well restored and ran great, but being done long ago means done to different standards than today. I understand your desire to make it perfect once and for all. That is exactly what I did, scat crank, stipe, etc all done at j and m. I had them do it one piece at a time as money allowed me. I am just getting ready to put it all together and look forward ti many years of touring!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 09:03 pm:

Sounds like you just want to build a new engine...no matter what logic prevails. Then, just do it and stop asking for advice. As you say "you can't take it with you ($$)"...so just spend your money and enjoy the results. Don't know about the transmission...they are plenty forgiving regarding wear. Do that too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 09:04 pm:

David, your probably right about the specs back than being the culprit. The engine was rebuilt by Edward Stein who was regarded to be among the best in this area....What grind Stipe did you end up using?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Saturday, September 12, 2015 - 09:07 pm:

Thanks John for your pearls of wisdom,..Will do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, September 15, 2015 - 08:41 pm:

John

When are you going to adopt me?

I grew up in Taunton so we may have been neighbors.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Tuesday, September 15, 2015 - 10:20 pm:

Fred, after consulting with the wife we have come to the conclusion that you should probably adopt us, since you were smart enough to move to N.H...:-)
Besides, after i told her about what i wanted to do to Mildred's engine, she started looking up tasty recipes for gruel..:-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, September 15, 2015 - 10:47 pm:

My guess is that if you take it apart you will discover those triple gears really were not so bad after all. Ninety year old spur gears make a little noise. If you want a lot of noise, then rebush triple gears, drums and all.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Tuesday, September 15, 2015 - 11:14 pm:

Ted, watch the vid again..their not ninety year old gears, but like 30. I would guess the side to side play is like 0.035 to 0.040. If you're comfortable with running that, go for it...I'm not.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Tuesday, September 15, 2015 - 11:49 pm:

I forgot to add...with all due respect..:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Mazza on Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - 08:39 am:

John, simply hide the whole thing from the wife! Mine thinks my engine build with all the goodies was only 1200 bucks. Oh and that new j and m trans on the work bench, told her it was the one I always had, just degreased it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Wednesday, September 16, 2015 - 10:47 am:

John,

My "perfect T motor" is one that runs smooth and dependably. It sounds like that's what you've got already. Don't needlessly rebuild your engine just because. I would do the trans rebuilt and leave well enough alone until something else goes sour.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Thursday, September 17, 2015 - 12:45 am:

Jerry, that is a very good point, especially financially, and since it runs so good. Maybe I'M not seeing things clearly, but i thought since i had to go through the hassle, time, and money to replace the triple gears it would be an opportune time to go through the complete motor and replace anything that could fail in the future,..I really don't want to tear it down, but why not take this time to do everything in your power to make sure it doesn't. Do you spend the money and time now when you have to pull it, or later with a possible broken crank, and/or broken block web? Maybe I'M over thinking this whole process,..it wouldn't be the first time.

@David M ...that's very mean..:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Thursday, September 17, 2015 - 09:02 am:

John - We are willing to adopt you and your wife only if you move to NH with the T and are willing to follow my wife's rules.

Just a bit of a heads up - She teaches ethics at a local college and has a sixth sense that tells her when someone is out of line.

As for the motor - My 19 had the original - unrestored - motor in it (two piece valves, cast iron pistons, etc.) and I was concerned that something might happen to it.
I bought another complete motor that had been rebuilt and am now installing it.
You might consider doing something like I am doing.


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