Rebuilding Wheels

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Rebuilding Wheels
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Carstensen-Trosky Mn. on Saturday, September 19, 2015 - 02:19 pm:

I pressed the wheels together. NOT GOOD I spun the rear ones on a axle. They wobble worst than my old ones. The hubs were blasted and spun on a lathe to make sure they were true. Not sure what to do besides throw them out back and forget them and drive what I have.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, September 19, 2015 - 02:40 pm:

The pics showing the hub started to be pulled in looks to me like its out of line a bit. A slight tilt but a little. Don't know if its an optical illusion but if the hubs were started to be pulled in at a slight angle would they straighten out when they finally settle in?

The all thread looks straight but the hub appears to be cocked just a bit higher on one side.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, September 19, 2015 - 03:38 pm:

I think John is right. Looks like the hub is leaning a little bit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Carstensen-Trosky Mn. on Saturday, September 19, 2015 - 03:41 pm:

Can the hub be removed?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Carstensen-Trosky Mn. on Saturday, September 19, 2015 - 03:47 pm:

If so, I'll remove the hub leaving the spokes be. Make a plate to hold my router with an end bit, and resurface the spokes where the hub meets.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Saturday, September 19, 2015 - 05:11 pm:

I didn't have this problem when I built my wheels, but I see how it can happen, maybe I was lucky.

A possible improvement to the wheel press might be to add a thick block in the center of the press in the same plane as the rim support ring. Then, the center of the spokes would have a flat surface to land on in the final stage of pressing. You could really crank down on the threaded rod nut to make sure that all the spokes are sitting flat on the center block.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By harold lee cartwright on Saturday, September 19, 2015 - 05:32 pm:

you should be able to measure the hub flange with a set of long jaw calipers all the way around the wheel to see if the hub is pressed on straight they can be picked up for under 20 dollars or less at tool stores


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Saturday, September 19, 2015 - 06:35 pm:

I have corrected the run out by removing the steel hub and facing the area where the hub mates using a milling machine. Using an end mill, lay the rim/spoke assy. on the mill table and carefully slide/rotate the wheel around making sure only to flatten the area that contacts the hub. Press the metal hub back in place and the wheel should run true if done correctly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Saturday, September 19, 2015 - 07:21 pm:

The New Zealander who builds wheels for me presses the spokes into the felloe and then the centre hole for the hub and the surfaces for the flanges are turned in a big old lathe, so all is true from the begining. They are shipped back to Australia with a wooden plug in the hub hole and all I have to do is fit the hub and drill the bolt holes for the flanges.

Les's post suggests milling the flange faces. That should work also.

Hope his helps.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Phillip Maurici on Saturday, September 19, 2015 - 08:44 pm:

Sure is a lot of space between spokes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Sunday, September 20, 2015 - 02:54 am:

It could just be the camera angle but the "high side" of the hub leads to a spoke that appears to not have the tenon entering the felloe at all compared to those that are in the foreground of the picture. Having all of the spokes pulled up against the hub and flush on the underside as you start out is important. I spend a bit of time making sure that all of the spokes are tight up against the underside before I begin the final push. I also spent a fair amount of time checking the spokes against the factory drawings since I realized that was very important. One wrong dimension spoke in the mix could cause a lot of mischief.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Sunday, September 20, 2015 - 08:56 am:

The action of pressing the spokes together is not critical. Once the spokes are together the roundness of the rim and the conformity of each spoke is what determines the outcome. Maybe the source of spokes is suspect?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Sunday, September 20, 2015 - 09:02 am:

Send 'em to Stutzman's in Baltic Ohio, but I remember the guy I bought my '13 from in Minneapolis say there was a good re-spoker not somewhere in Minnesota. Just a thought.

You said they wobble worse than your old ones, which makes me believe the old ones, well, wobble. Don't trust them!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Sunday, September 20, 2015 - 09:38 am:

Dan,
What John said is right you need to check the spokes and see if they have all the right dimensions.
Where the spokes touch each other they need to be clean, no paint or varnish,(it work as glue and the spokes will not take the right place). The hub should be clean as well as the tenon holes in the felloe. I drill the holes with a drill 0.1mm lager as the initial hole to get the rust and other debris out. Before assembly I put some furniture wax in the holes to help the tenons going easier in the holes, an old blacksmith(89 years) told me this and it works.

Good luck
Andre
Belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Carstensen-Trosky Mn. on Sunday, September 20, 2015 - 09:58 am:

Everything was clean & true. The spokes were from Stutzman's. I think I'll find a end mill & resurface the area under the hub level with the felloes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Sunday, September 20, 2015 - 10:31 am:

Maybe the rims are bent?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Sunday, September 20, 2015 - 11:58 am:

In the day there were several spoke makers I have
a set that were alternately tapered and the last spoke went in like a wedge with force and the wheel was very tight. It only took a wood mallet to install. These wheels have been together for 50 years and have never come loose.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Sunday, September 20, 2015 - 06:57 pm:

David, what you describe is what we find on our Canadian sourced cars. The spokes wedge inwards at the hub and from the inside flange on the hub to the outside plate, alternately. So, the wedge from front to back also. It makes for a tight assembly at the hub.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Monday, September 21, 2015 - 02:38 am:

I rebuilt my right front wheel in 2011 using John Regan's spoke press. My wheel did the same thing, but only worse than yours, as you can see in the picture. I simply backed it off and started over until I got it right I documented the process in the below thread.

www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/183733

I have since heard that a Styrofoam cup with a hole punched in the center and threaded down (upside down) over the allthread, can be used to support the teepee as the spokes are being set up to be pressed. You must make constant adjustments to the spokes (I made adjustments to each spoke every quarter turn), to be sure they are aligned properly so they don't go down unevenly or twist. Some need to be pushed down, some need to be pulled up and some need to be twisted. At some point, adjustments will be impossible and after this, you simply tighten the spokes on down and hope for the best, the job will be a success or failure depending on how well and how often you adjusted the spokes while you are able. There is no limit to how often you can back off and start over until you get it perfect. You get better with each try. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Monday, September 21, 2015 - 02:41 am:

Oops. Sorry. Here is a workable thread. Jim Patrick

www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/183733.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, September 21, 2015 - 09:08 am:


Here's what I used to support the spokes. It stayed in place OK, but a little tape wouldn't hurt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Monday, September 21, 2015 - 09:26 am:

I had, or may still have, some folloes with no holes. There are just pressed in dimples. How did that work?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Monday, September 21, 2015 - 09:36 am:

Corey, the tenons in the spokes were shorter and rounded to fit in those dimples :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Monday, September 21, 2015 - 09:39 am:

OK thanks. It had me puzzled.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Monday, September 21, 2015 - 12:46 pm:

One silly question, did you check the hub end of the spokes before putting them in? I had two spokes that were dinged by something and need a little fine sanding for fitment. If this isn't checked the result can be a spoke that tries to twist a little going in which will make the wheel wobble. When finishing the face that rides against the hub do not take too much off or the spokes will wear out fast there should be no play between the spokes and the hub. :-)


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