OT - Some Technical Detail Behind the VW Diesel Emission Scandal

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: OT - Some Technical Detail Behind the VW Diesel Emission Scandal
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, September 25, 2015 - 05:33 pm:

OT, here is an article I found on PBS' Nova website talking about VW's issue with emissions on their small diesel powered cars:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/tech/volkswagen-diesel-emissions/


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Friday, September 25, 2015 - 08:59 pm:

The US Feds could rule that all the cars were illegal for sale in the US and order a buy-back. They probably won't since it would send VW into near bankruptcy and affect the global market on many different areas outside the auto industry.

More likely is that US buyers will be stuck with the cars and VW will re-chip them for better emissions and lower power. VW will probably get spanked with a large fine but owners will still be the ultimate looser unless they sue. (Some have started the process already.) If they can prove fraud, owners could get 3-times the damages. The issue will be; What are the damages?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Friday, September 25, 2015 - 09:24 pm:

Yea,it would stink to own 1 of those because you are used to the power and such and then it will be rechiped and you may as well be driving a dam- Yugo.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Baudoux Grayling Michigan on Friday, September 25, 2015 - 09:31 pm:

I never liked VW, but I do now. Anyone who gives the middle finger to an overbearing government gets an attaboy from me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Friday, September 25, 2015 - 09:34 pm:

You don't think these cars will be grandfathered in and VW fined to make up for any impact to the state economies?

I still don't understand why owners would be upset. As long as it passes the test, who really cares or knows what, and how much their car is emitting?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim Dobbins on Friday, September 25, 2015 - 11:12 pm:

I have a diesel Jetta and love it. Since I live in California I will probably not be allowed to get tags next year with out vw rechipping it and there goes my performance and probably my mpg. Won't do my resale any good either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Saturday, September 26, 2015 - 01:17 am:

Seems like a lotta media BS hoopla over a who-gives-a-damn non-problem ? Unless
a person is the bleeding heart Prius-owning type, who really cares ? It seems all the news
reports on anymore is same-sex this or that, perceived social injustices, the "rights" of
everyone else to my money, or 12,000 ways to see oneself as a victim.

This ain't my Grandparents' America anymore.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Saturday, September 26, 2015 - 10:02 am:

Ever since I found out VW uses left-hand thread fasteners on the right hand doors, stupid vacuum operated door locks, double fuses on every electrical circuit and generally makes it impossible to work on their cars without a truck load of special tools, I have no sympathy for them.

Their engineering is based on the decisions of micromanagers (top down) and not standard industry practices. It's like each system of the car is designed independent of all other systems then the parts are put in a box for the prototype assemblers to figure out. They make all sorts of brackets and adaptors to make the parts fit then send the designs off to assembly. They are one of the worst cars to work on and hope they get banned in the US. (Just like the Mexico version of the Beetle was.)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Saturday, September 26, 2015 - 10:19 am:

We bought a new 1971 bug and while it was a fun car it also was the worst car i ever owned!!! 50,000 miles and it was time for a overhaul! I stopped to ask a fellow out washing his car where a salvage yard was and he said.[Dont take it there,i'll give you 50.00 for it]!!!!!!!!!! Bud in Wheeler,Mi.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly Montana on Saturday, September 26, 2015 - 11:21 am:

My '06 Jetta TDI diesel has been trouble free for 9 years now. I get 48 mpg running 70 mph on the interstate. I had bugs and buses in the 70-80s. They are like Ts, you had to like working on them. PK


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Saturday, September 26, 2015 - 11:40 am:

My first new car was a 73 Super Beetle. Stick shift with air but I never had a problem with it. Drove it for two years before my first "Big D" then sold it to my parents. My mom drove it to work every day for 14 years after that until she retired from civil service. The engineering was much different back then. And no computers. If you performed the scheduled maintenance, they'd last forever. Not so today.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, September 26, 2015 - 11:54 am:

I had a 57 VW bug many years ago. I lived at the beach only a block from work and we were new in town so didn't do much driving. Anyway, I had to check the air in the tires more often than I bought gas. The downfall of that car was the standpipe in the gas tank. It had a valve where you kick when the car starts to run out of gas and sputters. That gave you about one gallon to get to the gas station. Unfortunately, I would top off the gas and so the same gas remained in the bottom of the tank for a very long time. Being near the beach, the inside of the tank drew water from the sea air and that water settled to the bottom of the tank. Finally one day I started to run out of gas and kicked the valve. It still sputtered and filled the carburetor with rust and water. Eventually the tank rusted out and started leaking. There also was a hill which I could climb faster in my Model A than in the VW.

As the family grew, I got a bigger Model A and sold the VW. The guy who bought it drove to Florida. I hope he made it. I never heard that he didn't.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Santa Isabel Ecuador on Saturday, September 26, 2015 - 12:15 pm:

I couldn't tell you how many times I welded the pin holes shut in the dip of an old beetle gas tank Norm. They all rusted out there whether left or right coast :-)I was heavily involved with VW's from 1968 till I retired and moved to Ecuador. On a fixed income, I could never afford the repairs on a modern one!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By brass car guy on Saturday, September 26, 2015 - 02:30 pm:

The truth is if one manufacture does is others have as well. The sad fact is corporate greed is the reason behind the cheating. Now there is talk about some BMW's with the same issues. Italy, Germany, England, Canada, and a number of South American Countries are launching investigations. Who knows where it will end up and how deep it will go. The financial experts around the world are suggesting this is the end of Volkswagen/Audi as we know it.

All those buyers around the world that actually bought into the Corporate b/s that the Volkswagen was the lowest polluting diesel in the world and paid their hard earned money, now face a very uncertain future with their cars.

California is looking at banning them from being licensed again. There are thousands of new unsold cars in dealer stock. The down stream effect is horrific for the world economy. 11 million in north America, and over 40,00 million world wide.

It is amazing how the outright greed of one corporation can change the balance of so many economies. One dealer I am familure with has 40 diesels in their inventory and can not sell them, no buyers. Their showroom traffic is non existent, for any Volkswagen, expect layoffs.

When the dust settles this is going to be very devastating to the dealers the local governments(taxes) and employment world wide. This is huge folks better pay attention.

brasscarguy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, September 26, 2015 - 04:04 pm:

It is sad that this can happen to a company, but if it is brushed under the carpet, others will follow. There needs to be an example set so that companies, however big, obey the law. If they don't like the law, don't do business here. Unfortunately, it could cause the demise of the company. Only a temporary dent in the world's economy. Others will rush in to fill the void. I also think the company should be forced to help the unsuspecting customers by fixing the problem or reimbursing them for their cars.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John C Codman on Saturday, September 26, 2015 - 04:15 pm:

To Ed Baudoux - I am hoping that you are not serious.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Saturday, September 26, 2015 - 10:45 pm:

Well the emissions laws in this country are to strict anyway.
I am another 1 that can't see the big deal with it all.
Now if they had sold millions of cars with a bad brake system or some other problem costing lives and 1000's of dollars to the consumer,I would think different.But if the government compromised and let folks use their cars and fine the company,folks would still have jobs,Volkswagon would be running around with it's tail between it's legs for a while but would survive to maintain warrenty work and get past this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Saturday, September 26, 2015 - 10:57 pm:

I always wondered about diesel VWs. They always had a lot of diesel clatter and blew a little black smoke while the Mercedes cars and others were running absolutely clean and nearly silent. Certainly adding more fuel is the way to make big power with a diesel. I can tell you first hand that even a diesel smart car is a drag race winning rocket ship when it has a smoky computer remap. I still remember my friend getting a ticket for doing 163 kph in his smart.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John C Codman on Saturday, September 26, 2015 - 10:58 pm:

As Brass Car Guy posted, I too have heard the 11 million figure for the number of cars affected. I guess that the Diesel VWs must be really popular in the rest of the country, because I hardly ever see a Diesel VW in New England. I have never seen a Diesel Beemer. I know that up here in the Northeast we are a bit different, but I didn't realize that we are that different.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Sunday, September 27, 2015 - 12:17 am:

From what I read, VW sold about 600,000 diesels since 2009 in the USA. The 11 million figure is the total VW sales of diesel vehicle worldwide.
From what is being written to date, none of the gasoline vehicles are involved.
What I found surprising is that this was reported to the EPA about 12 months ago and it took so long to respond. I suppose that is typical of a US government agency....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Sunday, September 27, 2015 - 12:52 am:

I lost the front crank seal in my rebuilt (last year) 22r Toyota 4x4 this week. It was a pain to fix,
but I got it done. I get 26.1 mpg, at last check. No computer, no emissions, .... methinks our
economy is too dependent on consumption of new, retail products.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Sunday, September 27, 2015 - 01:28 am:

Bud, we had a 1971 VW bug bought new and loved it. Last model before superbug, last one with single carb. ... Went over 175,000 miles before first problem... Worn out clutch. 80,000 miles on the first Geschlaben tires. Never went more than 3_000 miles on same oil. Loved it so much we bought a used '71 bus some years later.

Would buy another '71 anytime, but not a 2015... Different company.

TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Sunday, September 27, 2015 - 08:19 am:

Terry,I'm glad you got a good one!Our's might have gotten just a little abused but we had fun with it! Bud in Wheeler,Mi.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Whelihan Danbury, WI on Sunday, September 27, 2015 - 08:39 am:

I for one, have absolutely no sympathy for VW execs. They were warned by the EU not to install defeat devices that falsify emission readings two years ago a they have been illegal in Europe since 2007. They clearly knew what they were doing was illegal and did it anyways...for years. Also as an asthmatic with touchy lungs, I really appreciate cleaner air. I agree with former GE CEO Jack Welch: "Now they have to go in and get a whole crowd of them and get them hung in the town square," Welch said. "Here's a place where truth and trust didn't exist." (CNBC)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John C Codman on Sunday, September 27, 2015 - 10:28 am:

I would agree with Kevin. I also think that VW should be required to repurchase every single one of the Diesels that doesn't meet the standards. Changing the software isn't an adequate fix. If I purchased a new car expecting a certain level of performance, then the manufacturer insisted on a software change that degraded the performance below what it was when I purchased the vehicle, I would be outraged.
I believe that we have an extradition treaty with Germany. The VW executives responsible for this should be tried as criminals here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Sunday, September 27, 2015 - 11:16 am:

One point I do not agree with Trump on is Japans brand of cars shipped in by the boat load. From personal experience its because there engineering has become high quality. I have an Echo with 226 K miles that just came back from eastern Washington 40 MPG. bought it for 6900. in 2001 with 39 K miles and other then tires, battery, all most nothing with an issue. My 96 Tercel tin can without even a trunk liner bought a few years past with 29K gets 45 MPG and again no issues.
If you watch parking lots the percentage of Jap cars is very high------folks know what works and what costs big bucks over time. Just my opinion!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Sunday, September 27, 2015 - 01:02 pm:

I am so glad that the owners of the VW diesels are suing the corporation so the poor attorneys can retire wealthy. Who is next?
Diesels Three - VW, Chrysler, and General Motors.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob from Nova Scotia on Sunday, September 27, 2015 - 06:59 pm:

I have one of the affected diesels. Jetta, six speed standard. Fully loaded. Goes like a scalded cat. If it gets detuned I am gonna be pissed!!! I spent big money to get the performance and comfort. The mileage helps, but It really is a great car to drive. For now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By n maver on Thursday, October 08, 2015 - 11:33 pm:

No comment necessary


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Friday, October 09, 2015 - 10:16 pm:

From personal experience, I ain't buying no Jap car!

Cheers,
Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Saturday, October 10, 2015 - 05:31 am:

The latest thing I heard on the radio was that VW is issuing a recall of 11,000,000 vehicles. The recall is tended to "repair" the problem.

What happens if owners of recalled vehicles just don't take their car in to be "repaired"?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Saturday, October 10, 2015 - 08:29 am:

'What happens if owners of recalled vehicles just don't take their car in to be "repaired"?'

See N. Maver's post directly above. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Warren on Saturday, October 10, 2015 - 08:40 am:

I absolutely love our 2004 Passat TDI. We get an honest 36 mpg city and 41 mpg highway at 80 mph This economy has to emit less overall emissions than one that is de-tuned getting less mileage. lbs of emissions per k


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John C Codman on Saturday, October 10, 2015 - 10:49 am:

I have no experience with modern VW Diesels, but I rented a Chevy Impala in Florida on the same day as a friend rented a (gas) Pissat. The new car prices were comparable, but the cars were not. The Pissat was so much better-built then the Chevy that GM should be embarrassed. The Pissat rode better, handled better, felt better in every respect. I have never owned a foreign car, but if this is an example, I can see why others do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, October 10, 2015 - 09:50 pm:

In answer to Mike Walker: In California, the car must be smog tested every two years prior to registration. The registration cannot be renewed unless it passes the test. I'm sure the smog testers will be notified as to what repairs must be made in order to pass the test as well as what to do to see if it passes as is. It must also pass smog test to transfer the title, so if it is not repaired, the owner may be stuck with something which cannot be legally driven in California nor transfer title in the state.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Sunday, October 11, 2015 - 10:47 am:

It was a joke, Norm. Didn't you see the smiley face? :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 05:04 pm:

The practice appears to be systemic across brands and models, now Porsche is entangled in it:

http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/02/autos/volkswagen-porsche-emission-cheating-scand al/index.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, November 03, 2015 - 07:44 am:

People who live in areas that don't have ridiculous emissions laws will likely be picking them up CHEAP. No different than the EPA sending jobs overseas with some of their ridiculous regs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ivan Warrington on Tuesday, November 03, 2015 - 09:12 am:

This is beginning to look more like an attack on Diesel engines in general. The EPA has been after them for years. They are coming for your air conditioning next.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Tuesday, November 03, 2015 - 02:53 pm:

-This just came across the news-
Volkswagen Group said Tuesday that its internal testing emissions has found "irregularities" in about 800,000 cars worldwide, adding an estimated $2.2 billion to the automaker's tab to make amends from the growing scandal.

Volkswagen said in a statement from Germany said most of the carbon-dioxide issues were found in diesel-powered vehicles, hinting that its emissions troubles could now be spreading to gasoline-powered vehicles as well.

The automaker also said it may have set some gas-mileage estimates too low, which opens yet another avenue for trouble. Ford and Hyundai are among the automakers in recent years that have faced penalties and civil litigation for overstating fuel economy.


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