Triple gears play in axiis direction

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Triple gears play in axiis direction
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willi Kuehnis on Monday, September 28, 2015 - 01:44 pm:

Hi,
my 1925 T runs good. Now I opened the cover on the hogs head to check the bands.
Then I checked the triple gears as long as it's possible through the hole.
Now I am confused: Is it normal, if all three of them have about half a Inch play along the pin (axial). There is now redial play.

I once disassembled it some years ago, but unfortunately I can't remember ;)

Please help me.
I don't want to remove the whole engine, if I don't need.

Willi


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Monday, September 28, 2015 - 05:09 pm:

Some thing must be "really chewed out" as it's not possible to get that sort of play on just worn bushings.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Monday, September 28, 2015 - 05:28 pm:

Willi, are you sure the gear is only sliding on the pin, and not rocking also?..I am going through some triple gear headaches myself. I agree with frank, 1/2" sounds excessive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BglVMweyqz4&feature=youtu.be


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, September 28, 2015 - 07:46 pm:

John

Just viewed your video. Yep. "not good"

Same thing with me a couple of years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNANIFwgIa4&index=15&list=UU1h0wEWNCt1_R2AAdzMNREQ

Here was the cause....spun bushing.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Monday, September 28, 2015 - 08:22 pm:

You said the car runs good. Leave well enough alone. If things go bad, you'll know about it and the repair won't be more than you'd have to do now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Monday, September 28, 2015 - 08:39 pm:

I agree with Richard on this I had were gear is Turing on the bushing and the shaft making it noiso but not cause to tear down and fix wait till you need other repairers unless your needing a job


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Garrison - Rice Minnesota on Tuesday, September 29, 2015 - 02:39 pm:

Now I'm confused. What could possibly be allowing those gears to move 1/2 inch along the axis of those pins? Isn't all that "thrust" really excessive when the spec for it calls for .015" to .027". Are the three thrust washers below the inner clutch drum. Is the bolt in the clutch drum in place? Like I said I must be getting confused by the question.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Young in Mays Landing, NJ on Tuesday, September 29, 2015 - 05:12 pm:

I've been getting loads of brass particles in my oil after short run times of about 30 minutes per oil change and I'm suspecting to find a similar problem when I tear the trans apart next month. Mine has been noisy compared to other model T's and this trans was professionally rebuilt 3 years ago. Please keep posting and let us hear what you find out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Garrison - Rice Minnesota on Tuesday, September 29, 2015 - 06:06 pm:

New bushings and pins with good gears and the proper pin to bushing clearance is the key. I think I read somewhere bushing clearance on a brand new Ford was at .002". But on a rebuild, especially if your running a "built up" transmission from used drums, triple gears, etc is .004. Also that .015" to .027" I previously mentioned can be achieved a few different ways. Facing the flange on the bearing to .006" - .010" above the shoulder of the bearing is one way. Another is to change the thickness of the thrust washers or simply face material off the clutch drum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Tuesday, September 29, 2015 - 11:06 pm:

Hey Dan, watched your vids on the noisy/growling transmission, was the triple gears at fault for that, and after you changed them out, did it go away?..And when you changed out the triples, did you also change out the driven gear for a new one?

(Message edited by JP_noonan on September 29, 2015)

(Message edited by JP_noonan on September 29, 2015)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willi Kuehnis on Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - 08:10 am:

Yesterday, I removed the engine from the car. Soon I will disassemble the transmission, then I will see !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - 12:19 pm:

John

Thanks for looking at vids. Yes, the growling went away, re-bushed the same triple gears and set the clearance correctly for the i.d. and the flange high. Didn't change anything else in the gear set.


....But also had to reset three or so magnet clamps, they were loose and adding to the noise as they were striking the coil faces.




Culprit were the NOS 14-24 brass screws in a new repro ring gear, the new gears are tapped in non-Ford 1/4"-24 and backed out. Had to replace all the screws with new repro 1/4"-24 brass ones, never got the memo that repro flywheel ring gears now are made with non-Ford tapped holes :-(

When the brass screws were tightened, they seemed firm, as the thread form was close but no cigar. When staked, apparently some of the threads got clipped and caused the backout of some of those original Ford NOS brass screws.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Garrison - Rice Minnesota on Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - 12:30 pm:

Darn it Dan, that's a little scary. I don't think I've ever re-used the 14-24 screws but I've heard of it being done. I'm glad you've got everything going your way now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Wednesday, September 30, 2015 - 10:49 pm:

One thing I noticed the pinned triple gears the center gear is wider
Then on the one piece gears and i have found more one piece triple gears being loose just wondering if this contribute


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