Just got this dropped off at my door. Mechanically its been rebuilt. Mostly body work and paint. It should keep me warm this winter...
Body work? Sheesh, I would drive the wheels off it as is!
But depending on how long ago it was painted,probably has filler popping out that is not visible in the photos.
Yeah Mack the pictures don't do it justice. The entire car is rough and appears it was never primed. The top wood is coming off and will get done right. The previous owners tried to put the thick window channel in and that doesn't work. They are all too tight to move without wrecking the risers. Wrong nuts and bolts throughout, but it came with many new parts. The upholstery and top kit included, spare radiator, books, tools and all brand new tires.
So is it yours, or a "job"? Hope the upholstery kit fits!
David, it belongs to Judge Richard Bayne (ret) he is a long time friend of the family. Now in his middle 80's this has been on his bucket list for some time. So the pressure is on to make it a fancy-dan'r !!
Mac, I thought the same thing. But Booth has been to my garage, looking over my project, and the first thing he told me was "You could fix all that, those dents would all bump out.And I thought I was almost finished.. That looks like a great project to freshen up. And for those of us good'nuf guys, we can watch the progress. Don keeps that workshop at a cozy 42 degrees all winter, this will give him some some money for the pellet stove...Can't wait to see it Don! JD
JD I would really like my Slim Whitman 8 track tape back...really~
Some of us used to have lots more time to get to our project(s). And some how after the last 40 years there seems to be less time now.... Glad you will be able to "get'er done" for him. And yes, please keep folks posted on tricks and techniques we may be able to use on our own projects.
Hap l9l5 cut off
Good Morning Hap!! I'm not sure the forum is the place to test things. There seems to be a rather stiff crowd that has about as much tolerance as a preacher at a house of ill repute. I don't have the experience or knowledge to argue with those that have had a lifetime of reviving the Model T's. But I do know a thing or two about modern sealants and wood preservation. So I will try to keep things moving with this project and post what won't get me in trouble...Thx Hap
I like Slim Whitman!
Yeah, and you know all about how us perfectionists is. Now excuse me, while I go out and sand some Bondo on my '15 runabout.
Just had to yank your your chain a bit Don B! Looks like another one you will make beautiful. (But I really do need to go out and sand some Bondo, it should be dry by now.)
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Ok everybody!! Written proof that Wayne has fully recovered and back to normal. That's a good thing and proof there is a God. And yes Wayne bust my chops any time but turn down that dang music!
Its coming along, and is pretty solid other than 3 spots. The top wood has to be completely redone and I won't use a glue gun like the prior did.
I checked the numbers and they match. So that should make the owner smile...
You don't believe in wasting time do you, Don?
John, I'm the kind of guy that can't sit down...me butt has been chewed too many times throughout life. :/
Don B. did you sand the body or did you use paint remover to take off the paint. If the previous owner had already removed the rust and paint or whatever that would make using a paint stripper the way to go. Just curious how you did it.
By the looks of the inside of the body the car was pretty decent to begin with. Doesn't look like it was a rust bucket that some have started with. Myself included.
John, I use the "Polycarbide Abrasive Wheels" because it will take the paint, bondo and rust off at the time. I do it outside because of the mess it creates and eye, ear and breathing protection is a must. The tighter spots I use a wire wheel on the 4" grinder. Today I'm welding in the patches on the wheel wells and one on the cowl. All in all the car is in pretty good condition just typical water trap rust.
Don, In a friend's restoration shop he uses Roloc Clean and Strip discs on his 4" grinder, are they the same thing you're using? I know his method sure works well for doors and fenders.
John, I'm not aware of Roloc Clean but I do use "Metal Blast" for prep. And yes on a 4" grinder.
Does anyone know what this placard would be? It is located on the driver side A pillar.
Is that a Ford numbered plate or actually related to the car? I'm not sure Ford used Philips screws to attach it. Maybe an ID tag for a company that owned the T way back when?
My questions exactly, John. I'm also wondering if it is some kind of State of Michigan vintage auto ID tag?
People that use these complain of them not lasting long. The trick is not to apply pressure,but rather let the disc float on the paint or surface. It isn't easy to do because you tend to push down on the wheel as it strips which wears them out quickly.
The plate seems to be much newer than the car because of the phillips screws.
Might be from '71?
Obviously something that was demanded by the local DMV in Michigan, maybe because the original engine was swapped or because it was common for new cars to have ID tags somewhere on the body than, so certainly some old car that was re registred had to have it too, according to this particular civil servant's set of rules
Don your photo answered my question. It seems that 3M refers to their Poly Abrasive discs by the "Roloc" brand name. My son just told me that their mechanics use a 2" version to remove gasket residue and to clean surfaces before reassembling engine parts etc. They refer to the disc/airtool combination as the "Roloc".
John I have used similar disc's and have them on hand. The Polycarbide discs leave the surface with just the right amount of scratches for the Rustbullet to adhere, which is a good thing. I'll go through about 20 or so per car and don't have to worry about media/sand blasting damage. Me likes !!!
How do they do on thick lacquer?
Do they "load up"?
Hi Chuck, the disc's work good on everything I've run in to. The cars have had the original paint which tends to "smear" a bit but it really isn't a problem. You may have to make a quick second swipe over those areas. Also, when I get the car stripped down I wipe it all down with lacquer thinner to get any remaining smudges off. The disc's seem unaffected by lacquer.
Can anyone tell me if the 26 Tudor had a dome light? If so approximately where it was mounted and also where the switch would have been? Thanks in advance...
No dome light on the Tudors.
Don, what is the "Metal Blast" you referred to earlier and where do you get it? Thanks. Dave
I got curious about a couple of Phillips screws that I found in my 1927 T. I Googled Phillips screws and found that they were not invented until the 1930s. They were (obviously) never used by the factory in any Model T.
John - That's right, there were NO Phillips screws on any Model T's.
I'm a Judge for the MTFCI and you would think that people who prepare their T for judging would know and make sure that they don't have any Phillips head screws on their cars, since they will and do lose points for that, but every year we find some T's that have them.
Don I just checked some pictures of a 27 tudor I had & it did have a dome light & switch on right pillar.
Don, my original '27 Tudor has/had no trace of a dome light or switch.
The original headliner was in it before I replaced the top but was too fragile to save but there was definitely no sign of a light.
If you ordered a new Tudor at a dealer in 1927 and said you wanted a dome light like in the Fordors, I'm sure they could fix it for you if you just waited another day and didn't mind adding another dollar to the bill. But Ford didn't put them in the Tudors at the assembly line.
Original 27 Tudor, with no evidence of a dome light or switch.
David, Metal Blast is a surface cleaner prep that Rustbullet sells. Just spray or wipe it on to eliminate surface oils for better adhesion of the automotive gray.
Thanks guys it sounds like it would be correct with or without the dome light. This 26 didn't show any signs of having one. Never a dull moment restoring a Model T...
The dome light would only be "correct" as in period correct and "would have been possible in those days, but very unusual" - but not "correct" in a judged by the MTFCI situation. It depends on what you want to do with the car
"period correct" I stand corrected ... period~
I have to add the Tudor I had was all original I was the third owner I took pictures of everything
& it did have a dome light.I compared it to a original 27 Fordor I had & they were identical.
I got the wood top kit straightened out and reinstalled today.
That cannot be beet.
Don B, You do such nice work! I would be almost ashamed to show some of the work I am doing after looking at your pictures. I don't do too badly, but it doesn't look nearly as nice as what you do!
Time to go out and get a little work done on the runabout! Maybe I'll crank up the ol' tape player.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Thanks Wayne, you are a kind man.
Thanks Don. Would "Metal Prep" be basically the same thing? Keep the pictures coming! Dave
A day off on the sugar beet harvest and you went right back to work on that Lizzie, what could be sweeter than that. You didn't use a glue gun on the joints like the last resto did ya? Looking great, JD
David, yes it is and it isn't really necessary as long as the loose dirt and rust is removed. Rustbullet loves rust to adhere too so no need to over do the cleaning of the metal.
JD, you got that right ! I'll take working on the T's any day compared to that beet topping crap. I guess I lucked out that the prior owner used the glue gun because it all just peeled right off without damaging the wood. The top wood is laid in a bed of PL-S30 now and 3M 5200 was used on all the joints. She will be tough as nails and still be able to flex without snapping the joints.
I took the water pump off the engine today and found it was locked up tight. While putting the outlet back on I discovered the block threads were stripped out, I had to go to a larger thread and bolts to get the outlet tight to the block. Just another little surprise encounter.
Here is a quick made jig for hammering out the fenders. The mission is to get the fenders pressed seam back. These rear fenders were very banged up and the prior owner shaped them with bondo instead of hammering them out. Note I made the jig narrow on the left side and wider on the right to accommodate different widths. So far its working out to where I can have something to work with to get them back to the original shape. If anybody has a better way to do it without expensive special tools please tell us. This had been the most common problem with these old T's and it sure would be nice to find a easier way...
Rust cut out and new metal welded in. It is time to immerse this critter with Rustbullet. Top is also sealed in Rustbullet. It also is bedded on the top of the body with PL-S30 and the joints along with the slats are joined with 3M 5200 Marine adhesive.
Amazing progress for only 1 month's time!
Don, I always enjoy your restoration threads.
Wow! You have accomplished in less than a month what took me a year to do - and your restoration looks 100 times better than mine! My front and rear fenders were quite battered, as well. I wish I had your jig - it looks like it really does the job.
Hi Don, looks like good progress. Do you use Automotive type Rust Bullet or the regular? Also. Did you end up spraying it and if so did you have to thin it and if so what did you use? Joe
Thank you Mark and Jim I really appreciate your complements, truly a incentive to do good.
Joe, I use the Automotive Gray Rustbullet and I sprayed it right out of the can. I do open the gun adjustments to the max and I adjust the spray width to about 6 or 7 inches. I also have the pressure up to around 60lbs. Rustbullet sprays with a heavy texture but when it dries it actually shrinks to the center from the outside edges. It is important to coat the edges of what you are spraying heavier than the center. It lays down unbelievably great. I love the stuff!! Then you can go right to the "high build primer", no need for epoxy primer at all.
Wow, that is great progress Don! Part of the secret to that fine finish work goes to the expensive professional spray tools he buys. My neighbor [Bill ] stopped by Saturday and said he saw you with handfuls of spray guns and coupons at the local HF...Don, what do you clean up the guns with, a Rustbullet product or something like enamel reducer, laq thinner, ? Looks really good...JD
Thanks Don, I am getting closer to being ready to use Rust Bullet on my roadster--sure not as far along as you are however. I bought regular Rust Bullet in quarts--not sure if will spray OK or not? Have you sprayed the regular? Joe
JD, I use lacquer thinner to clean up the guns and tips.
Joe, I'm not sure what "regular" Rustbullet is? I've always used the "Automotive Gray".
Don, I took a closer look at my can and it does say Automotive ,so I'm all set. By the way, any problem spraying this stuff outside? Joe
Joe, I just sprayed this outside yesterday. The only problem I had was some slight wind blowing the spray around. But, it sure beats trashing the barn with paint dust. Rustbullet flashes very quickly and dries rather fast, depending on the humidity. The more humid it is the faster it dries. The coating will take overnight to see the final results, it lays down even more with a little time. Have fun !!
Don, I don't know if you ever used the clear Rustbullet? If it is as tough as the one that you are using it might be a great substitute for varnish. Any thoughts? I see amazon has a qt. for about 44 bucks. I might try puttin a qt in the wifes shopping cart....JD
Do you do any other preparation between the polycarbide abrasive and spraying the Rust Bullet?
Michael, I just wipe the entire surface down with Lacquer thinner and let dry. Then apply the Rustbullet and then do any feathering work (bondo). After sanding the bondo recoat those areas with Rustbullet again. This locks the bondo from the steel and the high build primer which will prevent it from absorbing moisture and becoming a problem down the road. So the end result is the bondo is sandwiched between the Rustbullet.
JD, I haven't used the Rustbullet clear coat product yet. They just came out with that about 2 years ago. I have used the Blackshell and it is one tough finish that can only be compared to powder coating. I applied it to the running boards and it has held up way beyond my expectations. I also used Blackshell on Ed's Fordor wire wheels and he says it hasn't chipped or failed in any way.
I've recently been getting quite a few questions about how I use Rustbullet on the T's. Keep in mind that I follow the instructions and videos found on their website. So for the sake of clarification and future reference, this is my method of the madness. This picture is of the 26 Tudor project I'm currently doing. I first remove all the paint, bondo and loose rust. I then do all the hammering and metal work such as patching and welding. And clean the patchwork up as good as possible. This picture shows the front fender after being patched where they typically have cracks from vibration.
The second step is to coat the entire fender with two coats of Rustbullet. Two coats if you use a foam brush or one heavy coat if sprayed. As you can see the rear fenders were really banged up. I hammered them out to get the original shape back. The balance act is to not hammer with too much force as to stretch the metal.
The next step is to apply the feathering agent. In my case I'm using "Icing", which I like because it seems to sand easily. The whole point and huge advantage of using Rustbullet is to isolate the "bondo" from the metal so it will not absorb moisture and create problems years down the road. After sanding and feathering the filler, I recoat (2 coats) the "bondo" and exposed metal with Rustbullet again. This will lock the "bondo" from absorbing moisture from the topside.
I repeat the feathering and coating of rustbullet until I'm satisfied with the shape and surface. The piece is now ready for "High Build Primer". Rustbullet takes the place of epoxy primer, so no need to spend your money on it. This is the method I use for the entire car. I also paint the wood with Rustbullet to stabilize it. It is wood and still needs to breath or it will rot from within. I'm not going to say this is the right or best way to go while doing a restoration. It is up to each restorer to decide that. This method is a option which I find has advantages. The big advantage to me is it eliminates the need to sand/media blast the metal. Which means there is no threat of damaging the metal or warping due to a bad sand blasting job. It should be noted that the rustbullet on the two Fordors I have done actually filled the top wood nail holes completely to the point they could not be located afterwards. I actually had to drill new nail holes in. So it works great on heavy rusted metal with pin holes and it will fill most of the smaller pits in. I don't have any connection with Rustbullet other than being a customer but for our hobby it is about the best thing I have found and makes life much easier. The thought of doing all the work to restore a car and a few years down the road the bondo rears its ugly head and starts to undo all your labors, well this will hopefully eliminate that from happening.
Don, thanks for the update and story on how you do it. Sure looks good. You are faster that a speeding Model T !!!! Have fun. Joe
Thanks for the tutorial, Don.
I would really like to get some feedback from all those trying it out. Good or bad it would serve quite a few forum members. I realize I have hyped it up for a few years now and I appreciate those willing to give it a try. A few years back a forum member (MG Restoration) stated "Its the best product for our hobby" and I agree. I can only hope others do also. So, Mike, Joe, Tom, Marv and Mark please tell us what you think when you get a chance. Thank you!
This is a picture of the radiator apron on this Tudor. I have not seen this on a apron before is this original?
That Thimble is really bent up.I have straightened out a few myself.
Some good pictures here, click on each small pic to bring up a larger version:
Thanks Mark, another surprise for me....
Here is what that thimble should look like on the '24-'25 apron.
'26-'27 apron w/ hole for round head screw and washer to keep the apron on the late engine/spring clamp mount with the threaded boss.
Subtle differences between the '24-'25 apron p/n 3977 and the '26-27 p/n 3977E apron.
Missing thimble on 3977E
Replacement thimble and replica one
Installed on Improved Car
Thanks Dan, I've straightened this one out. Still have to do a couple spot welds on it but I think it will be just fine. Thanks for the information...
Very nice car.
It isn't bad Butch, but there is one thing that tends to bother me about this car. One might think it has a "curse". The original owner had the car for a few years and rebuilt the engine and drivetrain. He then decided he was going to restore it and bought a interior kit, top kit and several smalls to do the entire car. He just started on the project and died suddenly. His bother took on the project and before he could get anywhere on it he died unexpectedly. So it went back to the original owners daughter who wanted to have it restored, she died shortly after arranging a restorer for it. So, I'm hoping I'm ok because I don't own it...but it makes one wonder just what is the history of this old tudor???
I hope this curse is not contagious!!!
Not to beat a dead horse, but Phillips-head screws were invented in the '30's. No model T ever had any from the factory. One of the first things that I did to my '27 touring was to purge it of the half-dozen or so Phillips-head screws that I found in it.
John the plaque has been removed along with the Phillips head screws. I'm planning to use correct nuts and bolts and screws everywhere. That was the only problem with this restore, they were all missing and what was there were incorrect. Fun stuff ~