Early body to frame bolts ???

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Early body to frame bolts ???
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Friday, October 09, 2015 - 06:53 pm:

Does anyone have direct knowledge of the proper configuration bolts that were used to attach the body to the frame in early 1909?

I suspect the bolts are 9/16" diameter fine thread with drilled shank. There are two lengths, longer ones for the rear frame mounts and shorter ones for the four forward ones. What length should they be? What diameter hole for the cotter pins?

The nuts should be castle nuts, I don't know which style. Low, high, scalloped or not scalloped??

The bolt finish I expect was raven.

Just got some hardware from one of the part sellers that is nothing like any of my description above. Cad plated grade five bolts that are undrilled and plain nuts. All cad plated.

Sure would like to know what is correct so that I can do this once and do it right.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Friday, October 09, 2015 - 07:27 pm:

Not to be pickey,but I would venture they are 7/16,not 9/16.I have some originals from later year,but not that early.I do have almost complete Mergzer auto wind shield for 09-11.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Friday, October 09, 2015 - 08:23 pm:

Jack,

You are correct, my mistake. They are 7/16" - 20 NF.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Friday, October 09, 2015 - 08:57 pm:

Royce,

There was only one part that was an easy answer: If you are going to use castle nuts on a 1909-1912 Model T – they should be the square at the bottom of the castle slots.

Ref: Gail Rodda in his excellent booklet “Model T Ford Parts Identification Guide” vol 1 addresses several of your questions. First the castle nuts used on the 1909-12 cars he states would be square in the bottom of the cotter key slot and starting in 1913 they were mixed and by 1914 they were all rounded bottoms in the cotter key slot. Ref page 1.

The length and style of nut used is not nearly as clearly defined between Gail’s booklet and Bruce McCalley’s (R.I.P.) Price List of Parts as the type of slot a castle nut would have for a given year car. I’ll try to look at that some more tomorrow morning.

Gail did include a photo of what I would guess would be the front & middle bolts and nuts. He used the same photo for both the 1909-1912 as well as the 1913-14s.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Friday, October 09, 2015 - 09:10 pm:

all the early bolts i have have round heads.charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Barry Fowler - Eagle River, Alaska on Friday, October 09, 2015 - 09:26 pm:

Royce: What do you consider early 1909? Mine is May 1909.

Barry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Friday, October 09, 2015 - 09:38 pm:

Some additional preliminary digging I think the rear body bracket bolt for 1909-10 will be part #3602; factory number (factory drawing) 1304. 7/16 - 20 x 1 1/2 inch. Note in Bruce's "Price List of Parts" I believe he has a "type-o" in the heading as he has the heading reading "Body Bracket Rear" but then he has the diameter and thread size listed and the cost is the same as other similar bolts and about 10 cents less than the other body brackets.

If you really want to get the correct length for the body bracket bolts -- I would recommend requesting factory drawings as Bruce has the following listed:

Bolt (Body bracket, fronts, 7/16-20 x 25/32" part number 3603 factory number 1305 used 1909-10 list price 5 cents.

Bolt (Body bracket) part number 3604 factory number 1629 "early 1909" 2 inches long -- price 5 cents.

Bolt (Body bracket, 7/16-20 x 1") part number 3604B factory number 2431 used 1909-10 -- price 5 cents.

Gail Rodda in "Model T Ford Parts Identification Guide" vol 1 page 8 has them listed as 7/16 fine thread 13/16 inch long on page 2 for the 1909-10 cars. From the photo the head of the bolt is thicker than the modern day bolts.

My DVD is not loading and it is getting late for me. But you can see from the above that Bruce used the term "early 1909" without stating a time frame. And related to that would be is his definition of early 1909 the same as your definition of 1909?

Hopefully someone will post an answer tonight. But if not, I'll try to get the DVD to load tomorrow.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Friday, October 09, 2015 - 10:05 pm:

Barry,
I am working on #904.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Barry Fowler - Eagle River, Alaska on Friday, October 09, 2015 - 10:18 pm:

Royce: Oh, so what is on my car may not answer your question.

Barry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Saturday, October 10, 2015 - 08:14 am:

Barry,

I suspect the bolts were the same from 1909 - 1913. Like Hap suggests, I expect they were taller than modern bolts with a domed head like Charley mentions. If you could take a picture of one it would be appreciated Barry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Saturday, October 10, 2015 - 08:40 am:

i will be back in 10 days can do then if you still need.charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerome Hoffman, Hays Kansas on Saturday, October 10, 2015 - 09:10 am:

Any one have pictures of this hardware? Haven't yet put a body on a frame and this would be helpful.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Barry Fowler - Eagle River, Alaska on Saturday, October 10, 2015 - 04:41 pm:

Royce: I'm working this weekend, but will be happy to take pictures of any part of the car that would be helpful.

Barry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Saturday, October 10, 2015 - 09:13 pm:

Barry,

Much appreciated.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Sunday, October 11, 2015 - 02:38 am:

Ditto on the slightly Truss shaped top on those bolts. My two '13s have them. Another bolt with the same configuration is the fan adjusting bolt for brass cars. I've seen way too many not to be correct.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Sunday, October 11, 2015 - 09:23 am:

Fan adjusting bolt on a late ' 12 shown:


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