1 and 2 cylinders not firing

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: 1 and 2 cylinders not firing
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George schmidt on Sunday, October 11, 2015 - 09:00 pm:

I need help. My 27 coupe has been running great for about the first 50 miles after sleeping for 40 years. I rewired the car, changed the fluids, plugs and checked out the brakes, and other saftey items. I learned to take the hills and had it on the open road , up to 35 mph.
Three weeks ago, The motor started smoke, hit and miss and have no pulling power.
I rebuilt the coil box with the composit inserts, coils were rebuilt and show to be hot. I pulled the plugs and put them on the head and each sparked in the correct order. I got new plugs, a new NH carb ( it came with a vaperizer ) new wires. The new Anderson timer I put on , was pulled and looks ok. The timing was checked and looks to be on the money.
I just pulled the plugs and it appears the engine is running on cylinders 3 and 4, since they have a lot of carbon on them and 1 and 2 show wet ? I switched the coils around , with the same results, 1 and 2 not firing. I checked the compression and all four show strong. What do I try next ?

George schmidt

George Schmidt


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod Barrett - Anderson, IN on Sunday, October 11, 2015 - 09:32 pm:

I would pull the plugs and hand crank the engine to the comprssion stroke of #1 TDC. Turn the switch to battery and see if you can get the plug to fire. If you ground the #1 terminal on the timer and the plug fires, then its your timer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Sunday, October 11, 2015 - 09:38 pm:

George, Are you certain the timer is centered properly on the timing gear cover? If 1 and 2 are further off center they may not be grounding and firing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harris, Huntington Beach California on Monday, October 12, 2015 - 12:20 am:

George: I had the EXACT same thing happen to my '27 Coupe and after checking everything out, it was a vacuum leak on the intake manifold gaskets... #1 & #2 share the same port. I pulled the intake & put new gaskets on... fixed :-)
It's worth a look/see.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Monday, October 12, 2015 - 08:47 am:

Slowly crank it over by the hand-crank several times to "feel" the compression. If You can feel two cylinders that are softer than the other two, Then you need to look for a blown head gasket. If all four cylinders feel equal in compression, then as Bill said, replace the intake manifold gland gaskets.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Monday, October 12, 2015 - 12:34 pm:

Make sure the #1 &#2 plug wires are separated (they should both be pointing straight down where they connect to the coil box) then turn off the lights and crank the engine and see if there are any errant sparks jumping where they shouldn't. Mine did that when I was tightening the # 1 connection at the coil box it rotated to the rear getting just enough gap that the spark was jumping from #1 to #2 and vice versa :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By steven miller on Monday, October 12, 2015 - 01:27 pm:

Tabs on the inside of the lid?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house . . .caldwell county, TX on Monday, October 12, 2015 - 05:13 pm:

OK. I'll say the same thing happened to me too! You say you went from a vaporizer to a Holley NH? So you changed intake and exhaust manifolds. And it's been over the summer? But you don't live in the South....then you may not have mud daubbers. I DID! The dadgummed critters built a nest in my intake manifold that had the consistency of cement. And only ran on 3 and 4 also. Had to sand blast it out, wash out the sand and blow dry the intake. Then it ran perfectly. Good luck


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, October 12, 2015 - 06:16 pm:

Have you done a compression check on the cylinders? They should all have the same compression which would be between 40 and 50 psi with a standard head on the engine. If you don't have a compression tester, try the thumb in each spark plug hole while someone turns over the engine. Good compression would try to blow your thumb out of the hole once every two revolutions of the crankshaft. Often the thin gasket between two adjacent cylinders blows out causing low of no compression on the two cylinders which causes a misfire.

I worked on a car earlier this year which had zero compression on #1 & #2. I thought it was a blown head gasket, but it turned out to be #1 intake valve stuck and #2 exhaust valve stuck. The intake valve had a piece of wire insulation stuck under the head of the valve. The owner had tried to find top dead center by inserting a piece of insulated wire and some of the insulation stuck under the valve head. #2 exhaust valve had some rust around the valve stem holding it open. I cleaned up the rust problems and lapped in all the valves. After that it has good compression all the way around and fires on all cylinders.

Anyway check the compression. If it is good, your problem is probably a blown intake gasket or an ignition problem.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim williams Baldwinsville NY. on Monday, October 12, 2015 - 07:03 pm:

Probably the contacts in the coil box I just recently ran
Across this problem good luck Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Vaughn on Monday, October 12, 2015 - 08:54 pm:

On my 26 fourdoor, the retaining pin on the intake valve spring broke or came loose. Little to no compression on 1 and 2....lots of smoke, backfire, etc. I replaced the retainer pins on all four valves for 1 & 2.....runs great now going on 4 years after this repair. Hope this helps. Bill Vaughn


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George schmidt on Monday, October 12, 2015 - 11:50 pm:

To all the replies, THANKS. I'm working down the list , starting Tuesday morning. I will keep of of you updated.

George


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harris, Huntington Beach California on Friday, October 16, 2015 - 01:13 pm:

George: Any updates for us?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Leon Parker - Benton, Kentucky on Friday, October 16, 2015 - 03:55 pm:

I just had #1 spark plug quit working. We took the spark plug out and it was covered in soot. I was running the car to rich. Cleaned them all up and leaned it out and all was fine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Glowacki on Friday, October 16, 2015 - 04:28 pm:

Check out the contacts in the coil box. I replaced mine and the car ran very rough. Found out the number 1 coil did not have a good contact. Bent out those contacts and it ran beautifully. 1927 Roadster...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George schmidt on Saturday, October 17, 2015 - 10:29 pm:

My update, as follows.
1.I checked the timer cover, with a centering tool. Centered and on the money.
2. Changed out the timer, double checked my connections, no improvements.
3. My coil box is a newer box and has the tabs in the lid.
4. I repositioned the wires at the coil box, all pointing Dow, no improvement.
5. Bent all coil contacts up for better contact, no improvement.
6. To check for intake leaks, I used propane gas around all contact points, with no engine performance improvement.
7. I obtained a better compression tester from a friend ( Doug ) and ran it wet and dry.
Wet Dry
1. 39. 39
2. 21. 29
3. 39. 39
4. 40. 40

I have taken the head off and the valves and Pistons have a lot of carbon on them. I will be opening the side engine cover to inspect the lower end of the valves tomorrow.

I will keep you updated.

George


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George schmidt on Saturday, October 17, 2015 - 10:32 pm:

My update, as follows.
1.I checked the timer cover, with a centering tool. Centered and on the money.
2. Changed out the timer, double checked my connections, no improvements.
3. My coil box is a newer box and has the tabs in the lid.
4. I repositioned the wires at the coil box, all pointing Dow, no improvement.
5. Bent all coil contacts up for better contact, no improvement.
6. To check for intake leaks, I used propane gas around all contact points, with no engine performance improvement.
7. I obtained a better compression tester from a friend ( Doug ) and ran it wet and dry.
Wet Dry
1. 39. 39
2. 21. 29
3. 39. 39
4. 40. 40

I have taken the head off and the valves and Pistons have a lot of carbon on them. I will be opening the side engine cover to inspect the lower end of the valves tomorrow.

I will keep you updated.

George


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Sunday, October 18, 2015 - 07:01 am:

Compression is too low, unacceptable. #2 is a dead cylinder. It probably needs a good valve job and likely some rings are stuck since adding oil did not change much of anything.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house . . .caldwell county, TX on Sunday, October 18, 2015 - 12:21 pm:

But have you taken them dam' old mud daubers out of the intake manifold?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George schmidt on Sunday, October 18, 2015 - 02:39 pm:

George, I took the intake off and clear. But I found a walnut !!! In the water jacket, in the head . Folks, take George's advice, look for things the wild life leave behind LOL.


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