1919 Motor swap update

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: 1919 Motor swap update
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Monday, October 12, 2015 - 01:56 pm:

I have the second replacement motor in my 19 and it is finally running.
I have done a few trips around the neighborhood, adjusted and readjusted the bands, run out of gas twice, changed the carb, added the manifold heat pipe, and put a narrow fan belt on.
The garage no longer smells like a Model T because I replaced the leaking fuel shutoff under the tank and polished the shutoff at the tank.

This motor has wood bands so I am learning that there is a difference between wood, Kevlar and cotton.
The wood likes a hard pedal for low and reverse, and the internal brake is the best I have used so far.

It is amazing to have a motor with real compression and I am happy that I put the starter on because it is still pretty tight.
It works on the mag and I am surprised to see that this motor likes settings that are significantly different than the original motor

During one of the first drives it stopped running and I found the carb iced up so I installed the heat pipe.

The only remaining issue is a lack of power on slight grades that were not as much of a problem with the other motors.
I hope that it gets better as the motor loosens up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Monday, October 12, 2015 - 09:05 pm:

OK. This is where someone to tells me that the power will get better when the motor wears in a bit. :-)

Otherwise I have to find something to fix! :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Bourgeois on Monday, October 12, 2015 - 09:31 pm:

Hello Fred,
How about some pics?

Here is more than you would want to know about carb icing.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/463404.html?1406349643


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Monday, October 12, 2015 - 09:54 pm:

Thanks Steve,

I don't know what pictures to post.
I have posted many of my T in the past and little has changed except we swapped motors because I want to protect the original one from damage.


The carb and manifold were covered in ice and cold so I added the heat pipe.
The previous motor ran poorly with the pipe but this one seems to require it.

My current problem is lack of power in high gear when I encounter a slight grade.
The previous replacement motor (long story about a cracked block) was strong but this one lacks power on hills.
It has the same carb, timer, coils, etc.
I am hoping someone will tell me that it will get better after a short break in time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 06:26 pm:

I am still trying to figure out what to check because of the low power on hills with the new motor.

It seems to run hotter than the others one so I am seriously considering a new radiator.
My wife says just get it!
NO! You can't have her. She's mine!


Any ideas?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 06:33 pm:

Check the timing - if it's a bit late it'll explain both symptoms. If the radiator worked fine with the two prior engines it's likely OK.
You can try screw out the spray needle in the carburetor some more, too - maybe it's not getting enough fuel?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 06:46 pm:

Hi Fred,

Have you confirmed your ignition timing? If it is a bit retarded your engine would have less power and also would run warmer.

A rebuilt and tight engine can run warmer and have reduced power. My buddy Phil (he's a member of our club) had his engine rebuilt a few years ago and it was tight. It ran well and started readily but was lacking power. For about the first 500 miles he was somewhat discouraged by the lackluster performance. By 1,000 miles he experience improvement and was feeling better about the engine. After 1,500 miles the engine was limber and produced very good power. Your milage may vary. Good luck, Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 07:55 pm:

I turn the valve out until the motor bogs down and then turn it out a smidgen

I haven't confirmed the timing, but I am using the same timer and timing rod from the previous motors.
It is a Dayco timer that requires a short rod.
I even shortened the rod a bit more just to be sure it had enough advance.

I probably need to figure out how to find TDC and the correct retard position.

I know that retarding the timer a bit makes no different in the power but it might need more.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 07:55 pm:

The best running T speedster I ever had, was slow and ran warm at first (rebuilt engine, back in the days I could do that sort of thing). Right around 1000 miles, it was like night and day. Ran like a bat out of #@!! for the several years I drove it a lot. Check the timing. Play with both timing and fuel mixture just to see. Then give it some time driving easy.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black SC/FL on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 08:52 am:

Fred,
When my hack did that, it was a bad coil.(previously been professionally rebuilt) The coil worked fine at idle in the shop and I couldn't notice dropping a cylinder until I was climbing a hill, then the power fell off drastically. AND, this happened all at once--not gradually. It was working fine when parked for a couple of weeks, then, it started acting up. Take off the coilbox lid and drive till it happens, then reach down and hold the coil points down on one coil at a time to see if there is one that has no effect. Even when rebuilt, these coils are still old and don't last forever!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 09:02 am:

Thanks Mike -
The coils were rebuilt by Ron Patterson a few years ago and I have a spare.
I will try it this weekend.
BTW - I assume that it is best to use something that is electrically insulated when holding the points down!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 09:11 am:

Fred, take a look at this. It's pretty easy.

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG97.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 10:51 am:

Thanks Steve -- That is great and as you say looks easy!

All I need to do is figure out how to get a clock in the space between the front pulley and radiator so I can tell when it is 3:30 :-)

Fred


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 10:53 am:

Run it easy and give the rings a chance to seat. Always suspect ignition when a T runs poorly. Test coils and try a new timer. At least clean it thoroughly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 11:50 am:

I have always been concerned about the timing so this is a good time to look into it a bit deeper.
As usual Steve gives great suggestions and makes things easy!

The car came with a Dayco timer (Sorry I don't have any pictures on this computer)
It has a lifting device (like a cam) that attaches to the cam shaft.
The timer then has 4 straight spring loaded plungers that make contact as the cam rotates to fire the coils.
It required little lubrication and I find very little dirt when I clean it.

When I first changed the motor I put a new roller timer with carbon brush on and it quickly became obvious that the timing rod was way too short, so I switched back to the older Dayco.

As I played with the car I found that it liked to run with full advance and perceived that it wanted a bit more so I shortened the rod another 1\4 inch but it didn't seem to make any difference.

Since then I ordered a 26-27 rod from Lang's (the new motor is 27) and was amazed that it is 1 - 2 inches longer than the rod I am using with the Dayco.

Doing the timing correctly may not be the answer to this problem but it is certainly a good place to look.
At least I will learn something more about the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 02:52 pm:

Fred,

Tape the spark stick up...set the crank to just past TDC (you can pull plug #1, thumb on hole and when it pops your thumb no matter how hard you press...it is coming up on TDC. Remove thumb, stick a straw in the hole leaning on the piston top and slowly crank it thru just a wee bit. The straw rises the last little bit, and then starts to fall, fall just a bit and you are past TDC just enough you won't get a kick). Key now on, switch set to batt, plug still out wiggle/rotate the timer for a buzz, then rotate slowly ccw until the buzz now just stops. You can now forget those set gauges, or stock comm rods as to finding location. You have found it no matter what make timer! Now you need to have a rod/make a rod that fits the hole centers exactly...that's where the bending tool comes in.

Also, sounds to me that for that hill climbing, forget the 'doesn't make no difference no how' lore and try a hill with full advance and then try it again with half advance/half throttle with added advance, added throttle as you rise...I think you might even become a believer in how a T is 'supposed' to be driven. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Saturday, October 17, 2015 - 07:01 pm:

I checked the timing this afternoon.
It was fun to learn see what happened.

Last weekend I shortened the timing rod about 3/16 of in inch because I felt that the car wanted more advance.

This weekend I used the procedures you guys gave me a I found that Number one was set to fire at exactly TDC when the lever was retarded.
So I lengthened the rod to where it was before I made changes and it is close to perfect.

I figure that the next step is to work on the carb. --
But before that I have to unstick the starter again because the bendix is stuck disengaged.




Meanwhile I dragged the old 8 hp 24 inch tracked dual stage snowblower out and got it ready to sell. It makes me sad because it has been a friend for over 15 years and only let me down once when the belts finally broke. It has a 110 v electric starter and all I did today was add a bit of gas, plug it in and it started immediately.

At the end of last season I got a fantastic deal on a 30 inch 11 hp commercial dual stage Snow Beast blower.
It also has 110 v electric start but wheels instead of tracks
I am betting that we only get an inch of snow this year, but I'm ready!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Saturday, October 17, 2015 - 10:18 pm:

Make sure the Low and reverse bands are not adjusted too tight. That can cause overheating and hard to turn over engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Saturday, October 17, 2015 - 11:22 pm:

Thanks Royce. I think i have that covered but I will keep it in mind as I try to get it straightened out.

BTW I am very impressed at how my dad did things.
The timing was perfect as were the band adjustment on the original motor.
Everything he did was a lot better than I can do even though I am mechanically skilled.
I miss him.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Sunday, October 18, 2015 - 04:11 pm:

I fixed the starter.
As before the sliding gear was stuck in the retracted position and it was easy to release.
I filed the ends of the spiral groves until it felt like the gear did not stick.


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