Removing Engine and Engine Stand Bracket

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Removing Engine and Engine Stand Bracket
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Christopher Vasconcelos in Fairhaven, MA on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 02:49 pm:

I am wondering how the engine stand bracket is going to work if it mounts to the 2 water pipe flange holes and catches the pan bolts at bottom...how does one remove the engine pan if it is mounted to the stand bracket???

Most images I see have the bracket catching those hole locations. I have no overhead hoist. I was going to lift the front end using jacks and mount the engine stand bracket to the engine...lower the jacks...and then my engine would be out and off of the frame.

Yes, I have read the Ford manual about 2 dozen times and have researched this for a while now. I have the engine un-bolted from the frame ready to be removed. Everything is off the car except the engine.

Please and thank you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 04:22 pm:

Chris,
Interesting approach!
I can't help because I purchased a 2 ton shop crane from Harbor freight and did everything without the bracket.

If you wait for a sale I think it can be gotten for about $100 with a coupon.
It is more than just for motors as I use it for many different things!

Also a gentleman showed me that an old pickup truck tire makes a great T motor support when the bottom of the transmission is placed in the center.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 04:45 pm:

Chris, being your in Ma, I am sure there must be someone here willing to lend and / or help you with the removal of the engine safely using a shop crane that is somewhat nearby. I know T engines aren't the heaviest, but your idea doesn't sound like a safe one in my opinion. Fred is right, sometimes you can find the engine hoists inexpensively, sometimes you can find them used too. I think I just saw a 1 ton in Harbor Freight for around $100 on sale---that is plenty to lift a T engine.

As far as the engine stand bracket goes, most I have seen have two "pins" that take the place of two pan bolts---and then as you said it mounts to the water inlet. Once you remove those two bolts from the pan to make way for the pins on the bracket, there is no issue with removing the pan. Unless your bracket is designed differently....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 05:05 pm:

Chris

Ditto...you should do it safe with a 'cherry picker' type crane lift, rent (most rental shops for tools have these) or borrow or buy cheap if you are going to remove another sometime. You need it for removal and install too.

That side bracket mounted to a typical low cost engine stand is at an angle too, can't think you could get this between the frame, and lifting the frame won't work, you would have to drop the frame on the garage floor, and then figure how to lift the engine on the stand out of the frame.





Safe bet, rent that engine picker upper. :-)
Easy to do like this old person too.



Lift the motor out first, then attach the side bracket and stand, then lower the assembly to the garage floor, safely.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Christopher Vasconcelos in Fairhaven, MA on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 05:19 pm:

Thank you guys....thank you very much. My problem was that I was trying to get the engine out before my kids got off the bus and I was running out of time and patience. After reading your comments I realized that I could not get the engine stand close enough to the engine to mount it.

I will have no choice but to buy an engine hoist. I'm sure lots of folks in Massachusetts or nearby would gladly let me borrow one but I'll bite the bullet and purchase my own.

I would have to mount it to my garage ceiling correct? I own a raised ranch with a finished garage...I could catch a stud or two to mount the engine hoist.

Mounting the engine stand to the 2 water inlet holes makes me a bit nervous but it looks like a lot of people do it that way. I also want to do this safely as most of you already mentioned. Sometimes it is good to get your thoughts out there and wait for responses.

Thanks again...this forum has helped me tremendously with the dis-assembly of my T. I'm 37 years old and have been working on it almost every night...taking it apart piece by piece and cleaning/inspecting every part.

I wish more people my age (and around me) were interested in restoring these great cars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John P. Steele, Montana on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 05:20 pm:

Chris if you have a Harbor Freight close they sometime have cherry pickers on sale for $100. If it's a one time deal as Dan mentioned you can rent them. The two pins on the bottom of the mounting bracket go through from the top, not the bottom. The two bolts from the water flange are what hold it on. Those bottom two help hold it in place, but they are pins not bolts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 05:32 pm:

Chris

You don't need a ceiling lift. A cherry picker is a crane on a roller base. It disassembles for storage in your garage. You can rent them.

My lift is Harbor Freight version,my engine stand is Harbor Freight too, with vendor bought T motor mount adapter.


Getting ready to pull the motor.



Engine out, now down, and showing off :-) how easy with one person and the right tools...but ready to mount the adapter plate in the foreground, then lift the engine up again, and slip the adapter plate tube into the collar of the engine stand.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 05:37 pm:

Chris,

below is a pic of a engine crane. They can have other useful purposes. My advice, if your going to buy one, get a 2 Ton and get a foldable one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 05:43 pm:

Chris

That adapter plate with bolts into the water inlet and two studs going into holes in the block/pan (you remove the Ford bolts there) works fine to hold the entire engine. Safe.



And the adapter plate can be positioned to hold a bare block or complete block and transmission attached, this helps provide the proper pivot point when you turn the engine over on the stand to work on the insides.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 05:50 pm:

Yes foldable 2 ton crane from harbor freight currently listed at $229. There is a HF in Fall River.
Do a web search and get the 20% off coupon for another $44 off.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 05:54 pm:

The portable crane is the easiest way to go. I happen to have an exposed 6 x 15 bean on my garage ceiling that can easily handle a T engine on a chain hoist but I have to move the car around to get the motor out and back in. The crane lets the car stay in place while you take the motor wherever you want to work on it. Make sure the crane can be easily folded up so it won't take up to much extra real estate when not in use.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 06:11 pm:

Also look at the $40 balance bar from HF.
I wish I had gotten one. It would have made it easier.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Sims--Reed City,Mich. on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 06:30 pm:

Dan you have your adaptor marked wrong. The pivot point should be closer to the transmison.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Christopher Vasconcelos in Fairhaven, MA on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 07:31 pm:

Wow...thanks again folks. I will be patient and save up for the 2 ton engine crane. Even if I only use it once my Dad will probably borrow it and so will a couple of my good friends.

The adapter bracket makes a lot more sense now that I know it pins in the bottom pan holes...still amazes me that only the 2 water inlet holes do the heavy lifting.

I'll try and post pictures of my progress!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 08:53 pm:

Jim

Thanks

will remark those holes :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 09:51 pm:

Best C note I spent was for the shop Crain from harbor freight I rolled few engines into the frame on the floor and blocked it up put the axles in not fun


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 09:53 pm:

Best C note I spent was for the HC shop crane
I rolled a few engines in to frames on the floor not fun that way but it worked you then have Crack frame up get axels under it


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By samuel pine on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 04:29 am:

Fred Dimock thats funny we just bought a balance
bar HF in Fall River 20 min down the road......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 05:31 am:

I have a engine hoist that is a 2 ton. It is a Ruger and is huge. It was my dad's. It takes 2 men and a boy to put in a P/U. It will take up a P/U bed, but it is a true 2 ton. These little fold up ones are rated 2 ton but I doubt if they would lift 2 ton. This one has an extention that allows it to lift a body off. Takes up a lot of space, but will roll under a model t.
RDWrichsr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 08:04 am:

The 2 tons is at the retracted position.
It is de-rated as the boom is extended, but still OK unless you plan on pulling big truck motors!

Sam - We probably have the same ailment - I drank too much Taunton water when I was younger.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 08:13 am:

Fred
Lifting big truck engines was what it was used for.
RDW


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 12:09 pm:

Most equipment rental companies have the "cherry picker" type lifts for rent for a reasonable price.

I use a chain lift. It consists of two pulleys with a heavy chain. I hook one end on the rafters of the garage and the other end to the engine and raise it by pulling the chain. Works fine. I got it at a yard sale about 50 years ago and it has pulled cadillac V8 engines, Dodge Dart engines, Datsun engines and Model A and Model T engines.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 12:26 pm:

If you play your cards right, some folks will let you borrow one until they need it again. A lot of folks like storing them out of the way....like at someone else's house, until they need them again. My son had one 'borrowed' for over two years because the owner didn't want it back until he needed it. He finally needed it and my son returned it, but got good use of it while he had it.

Richard, I had to look to see where you lived. I haven't heard "two men and a boy" in years. You ain't from South GA are you?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 12:41 pm:

Hal;
No, I was born and raised in northern Indiana.
RDW


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom 30 miles N of Memphis TN on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 12:59 pm:

Richard,

I was raised just 20 miles north of South Bend. My dad used to always say 10 men and a boy. Living in TN now I don't hear those terms much anymore. My all time favorite of my dad's was, "Its good enough for who its for". That still gets lots of mileage at my house.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 02:51 pm:

I was the guy u bought your T off of


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom 30 miles N of Memphis TN on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 03:12 pm:

Yes, still have it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 05:56 pm:

One thing I do that results in no lost garage space is take note of the cherry picker type hoist you buy and you will see that it can easily be taken apart and then hung on the wall in 3 pieces nearly flat. The bottom wheels and their platform is one piece, the RAM and its vertical mounting braces are piece number 2 and the top arm beam is piece number 3. All of those pieces when taken apart will lay flat on the floor and hence can also hang flat on garage sidewall. Cherry picker cannot be rented for as cheap as they can be bought and they are very handy since they can lift your engine stand and all up into a pickup truck with the front wheels extended to roll under the truck. You can take delivery on things by making a "sling" from tow strap material to allow you to then pickup heavy things out of delivery trucks that otherwise charge you more for tailgate delivery. If you can store it out of the way on a wall then you don't have to modify your garage and ceiling and the picker will pay for itself in a very short time. I but you can't find one guy on this forum that regrets having bought one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By J and M Machine Co Inc on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 06:29 pm:

Chris You can see how it's mounted as the lower pan holes are only alignment pins


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Christopher Vasconcelos in Fairhaven, MA on Thursday, October 15, 2015 - 04:02 pm:

Yes...I see the pins...makes a LOT more sense to me now. I am very excited about taking the engine out to work on it. I am attending a steam engine show this Saturday in Rhode Island so I'll be busy but I'll get back to the T next week.

I have a couple of 12 x 12 sheds I can store the cherry picker in so I'm lucky...now I need to save up some dough.

Thanks again.


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