**1909 - 1918 Wood Felloe Wheel Assembly**...I think

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: **1909 - 1918 Wood Felloe Wheel Assembly**...I think
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 01:14 pm:

It's been a while since I posted last, hope you haven't forgotten me :-). Wasn't quite sure how to approach this one and it's been through a couple of re-draws to get this point. But as usual I'd appreciate any advice and or corrections you may have. And of course the part numbers are Langs, the only problem is that I can't seem to find any parts vendor who is selling repro eliptical spokes.



Not sure why this is, then I thought that since you pretty much have to be a wheel wright to assemble the rim to the felloe assembly, that there just isn't any market for them from a "do-it-yourself" stand point.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 01:20 pm:

I will have to look at my 1909 - 1911 parts lists to give you all the variations on hub and hub plate parts, which are different for those earlier years due to the smaller diameter hubs / plates, and the non - tapered rear axles. Also the bolts in 1909 were 1/4" diameter, not 5/16 so the bolt and nut part numbers are also all different for 1909.

Next, the roller bearing front hub came out in 1918 model year for the TT so the part number changed for that.

I think without looking at all those documents that your drawing is representative of perhaps 1911 - 1917.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 01:31 pm:

Ok, I'll make a note of that and change the title. Whilst I'm at it I'll try looking up what a 1909-1910 really looks like.

I was thinking of doing the fronts, but since they go together the same as the rears with the possible exception of size it would be just unnecessary clutter. So I thought I'd just do the wheel assembled and show the assembling of the hub instead with a ghosted or cut off spindle for a reference point. Might have to ghost out the spokes a bit too, so I can show both ends and what goes in them...what do you think?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 03:14 pm:

The spokes evolved in shape and size nearly every year from 1909 - 1918. The earliest spokes were thin and tear drop contour. By 1917 they were oval shaped and much sturdier as your drawing. It would be tough for a vendor to sell anything except complete re - wooding kits including spokes and felloes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 04:18 pm:

Tear drop shaped? You have a picture of what they look like? Which way does the pointed end of the tear drop face? Do you have pictures of the different rear hubs and the year they were used?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 04:19 pm:

Martin,

I do and will post them later when I have time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 07:44 pm:

This is an early 1909 front wheel with 5 1/2" diameter hub, 5/16" hub bolts, with the spindly teardrop spokes. It is hard to photograph the teardrop shape due to the eye of the camera being two dimensional. The point of the teardrop faces the outside of the wheel. The nuts require a 9/16" wrench.



The photo shows a 6" machinist scale compared to the 5 1/2" diameter hub.


The lip where the hubcap rests is about 1/8" thick.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 07:56 pm:

The 1909 - 1910 rear hub designed for non-tapered axle with 3/8" diameter pin through the hub cap threads to hold the wheel. 5-1/2 diameter flanges held to the wheel with 5/16" diameter bolts. The general shape of the hub was like that of the front hubs once the hub cap is installed.



The hub in the foreground is a late 1911 model year - 1927 6" diameter wood wheel hub.

There was an intermediate rear hub with 6" diameter, 3/8" hub bolts, but still using the straight axle. I don't have a photo of one of those, they are quite rare.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 08:04 pm:

This is a 1911 - 1913 front hub. It has no machining to mount a speedometer gear. It is 6" diameter, and uses 3/8" diameter hub to wheel bolts. Note the 1/8" thick flange where the hub cap rests.



This photo shows a 5 1/2" 1909 hub plate next to a 6" 1911 - 1912 hub plate.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 08:30 pm:

Some time in 1914 the wheel hub inner diameter was increased slightly and a machining operation was added to provide a place to index the speedometer gear. Both front wheel hubs would be the same left / right regardless of whether a car received a speedometer or not. This style of hub continued into the 1917 model year. Note the continued 1/8" flange which the hub cap rests against.



Hubs were made by several wheel makers, and by Ford in house in order to satisfy demand. Some had a maker's cartouche, some do not.



"Ford Special" Speedometer gear installed:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 08:37 pm:

Final hub design for wood wheels, 1918 - 1927. This design was used interchangeably with ball bearings or roller bearings depending on the car or TT truck. The flange where the hub cap rests is made much thicker to allow room for roller bearings.


Canada made this hub from 1919 - 27 too. Again a maker's cartouche may or may not be present:



Machining for the speedometer gear was eliminated as Model T's were no longer factory equipped with a speedometer. However aftermarket speedometer sales were healthy and it is common to find a speedometer drive gear installed on these late hubs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Thursday, October 15, 2015 - 03:18 am:

Wow, Royce, this helps a lot...looks like I'm going to have more than one wood felloe wheel configuration, or at least several hubs.

The tear drop spoke is really interesting, looks like at the hub it starts off more roundish and as it gets to the felloe it is more pronounced or sharper...this is going to be fun! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Gumbinger, Kenosha, WI on Thursday, October 15, 2015 - 01:09 pm:

As Royce points out above, for '09 to '17 front hubs, the flange where the front hub cap screws up to was approx. 1/8".

When judging cars for the MTFCI at their annual tour, many cars '17 and earlier have the wrong hub with the wider flange. This is an automatic deduction.

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Thursday, October 15, 2015 - 02:24 pm:

Hey Martin, when are you going to do the Rocky Mountain view?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Thursday, October 15, 2015 - 07:30 pm:

Larry, Just got my computer back up and running. Put it through some paces with this assembly...seems to be working good. Believe it or not yours is in the works now too. I like to have at least three different drawing project going at one time. That way when I run into a snag or have to wait for further information on something (like the rear axle, still waiting on that one) I got other projects to fall back on. The wheel seemed the easiest to do (or so I thought), I had an engineering drawing of one, didn't know the year but since it was a wood felloe, assumed it was 1909-1918. I didn't realize there were so many different variations of the wood felloe wheels, which makes them vastly more interesting now and getting these right may be a bigger challenge than I had first anticipated...which makes them all the more fun. :-)


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