Removing front wheel inner race

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Removing front wheel inner race
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Saniewski Denville NJ on Tuesday, October 20, 2015 - 11:39 pm:

I am trying to remove the old ball bearing race on the inside of the front wheel for a 1917 T. There looks like a locking ring holding the race in. I was able to knock the outer bearing race out no problem, but the inner will not budge. Should I hit it harder, or dose that locking ring need to be removed first? Thanks Ed Saniewski


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, October 20, 2015 - 11:48 pm:


The retainer ring goes inside the cup to hold the ball bearings in. It doesn't hold the cup in the wheel. That's a press fit. Get a bigger hammer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Owens on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 12:03 am:

Ed, Weld a big bead on the inside of the race where the balls run. When it cools it will shrink and fall out. It will be junk but Ian thinking thats why you are replacing it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Saniewski Denville NJ on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 06:00 am:

Thanks for the info. Steve, did you have a post on here about cutting a deeper notch in the hub so the new race can be removed in the future?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 07:37 am:

You just need to hit it harder Ed. The inner race hangs into the hole enough so that a good 12" taper punch can be used with a 5 pound ball peen hammer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 09:16 am:

Was this what you remembered Ed?

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/523260.html?1425618651

You're not the only one having difficulty...

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/487046.html?1413518885


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 09:43 am:

Ed... Don't be tempted to replace the ball bearings with Timken tapered bearings. The early hubs are too weak and many have experienced cracked hubs. Often times, this comes from pressing in the harder/thicker cones that are required for the tapered bearing. The cups that are used with the ball bearings are much more flexible and don't stretch the hub. So it's wise to stay with the ball bearings on early hubs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 10:45 am:

The problem with using original bearings is that some of the parts are increasingly hard to get. The retainers and the inner cup are still plentiful, but there's a good reason the outer cup and the cones aren't in the dealer catalogues. Nobody is making these parts, so the difficulty of finding them is only going to get worse.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 11:02 am:

A guy had NOS inner cups a Hershey for $15 each. I should have bought some, but already have them. By 1917, the hub should have the two slots for pounding out that cup, but maybe not. Also, I would use plenty of WD-40 around the edge of that cup before removing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 11:15 am:

Yes, I understand Steve... But, hammering timken races in an early hub is detrimental to the health of the hub. So we're going to need to figure out something that works and doesn't leave a mountain of worthless hubs in our wake.

I have been buying up all the early bearing cups and cones I can find and re-conditioning them. Even the NOS cups you find are not very good and will fail early because of blemishes. The solution I have been implementing for myself is I re-grind and polish them so they are clean in the bearing tracks and then they last for a very long time. (sometimes it's handy having an optical background!) I have several sets now and brought home 4 more complete sets from Hershey. There were many sets I found and just left behind because I only need enough to keep my cars running... maybe I need to buy up all the originals I can find, re-polish them and turn them back into the market???bearing


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 11:18 am:

Larry.. I found that guy after I saw you on Wednesday. That's where I got the 4 new sets from. He must have a box of them because when I came back through on Thursday, He'd filled the bin back up!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 11:21 am:

Inner cups are listed in the Birdhaven catalogue at $4.95.




The cones and the outer cup are another story. If you find those NOS, you'd better get them while you can.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Fischer - Arroyo Grande, CA on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 11:24 am:

"maybe I need to buy up all the originals I can find, re-polish them and turn them back into the market???"

I'd be first in line at the "Lyons Wheel Bearing Store", James.

Last year I replaced all the front bearing parts on my '12 with the best parts I could find. The cups were NOS, but certainly not in new condition. I polished them the best I could in my lathe, but lacking the knowhow I'm sure yours are worlds better. My present setup is better than what I took out, but probably won't last for long.

Yours look beautiful.

Dick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 11:44 am:

I'm cheating, using 1917-1918 hubs in my "1915" wheels. I hope those will survive OK with Timkens in them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 11:53 am:

Steve.. My experience, and word from others much older and more experienced than I, is that you know right away when it all goes wrong. First clue is that the hub cap is suddenly harder to get on, or won't go on all the way. A symptom of "spreading" the hub.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 11:55 am:

Dick.. Thanks for the kind words. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 01:32 pm:

Be wary of "NOS" ball bearing races. I bought some once, and there were many problems with them--my conclusion was they were factory rejects as the OD was not to Ford Specs, and then the vendor had glass beaded them to "remove the surface rust from long term storage"--well that made then unusable, unless you polished the race area--but I was still stuck with the over-sized OD, which was bad enough to cause a swelled hub if one forced them in.
SO--measure, measure measure before using!!


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