I'm making up a list of all the items that should be brass or brass plated for June 1915. Have I missed anything?
Side lamp tops & rims
Tail light top & rim
Steering gear case & cover
Spark & throttle levers
"Murphy" fasteners (Ford never used the Murphy brand)
Tire valve stem covers
Tire pump cylinders and fittings
Horn screen assembly
Horn tube and reed holder and elbow
Speedo rim (varies by brand?)
Mixture knob on dash
Mixture knob is painted black in this factory photo.
Notice that the cowl lamps are not installed yet - the cowl lamp castle nuts and the radiator castle nuts are also brass.
Top bow nut cover
Hi Steve -
Klaxon horn bell?
Speedometer instrument trim?
By June the horn would be electric, wouldn't it? My reading finds mag horns with a brass-trimmed bell as early as January and all-steel "by October". I guess either one would be legitimate for June.
Coil box Switch plate
Windshield hinge nuts
Light switch plate and knob
Oil filler cap
Spindle bolt oilers
lettering on patent plate
In the factory photo Royce posted above, the steering wheel nut appears to be brass.
This period photo advertising an accessory hood seems to disagree on some of the items listed so far. Is it possible this is really a 1916? I notice that besides the aftermarket hood it also has electric side lamps.
Dale, I beg to differ with you on the Top Prop Nut being brass. The picture Steve posted just above illustrates my opinion that the Top Prop Nut is black and not brass.
Actually, I don't think that Ford ever made those with a brass cap on them. In addition, the repo parts of this piece are about 1.46" in diameter, but the originals, as on my '14 Touring, are 1.21" = much smaller.
I welcome any other opinions concerning the Top Prop Nut.
Coil Box switch plate depends on car's assembly date, Ford went to a Blued steel switch plate.
>>>By June the horn would be electric, wouldn't it?<<<
I don't know what accessories your car is sporting but my understanding is that early magneto horns had some brass trim and the Klaxon horn was optional equipment at the time.
Carburetors: The Kingstons and the Holley G are bronze.
The oil cap had been steel since the 1914 model year. The steering wheel nut is black painted steel since 1912. Prop nuts were black painted steel back to the beginning of T production.
When I researched my recent 1915 Runabout purchase I was unable to verify without authoritative research if the steel trunk lid handles should be brass plated or painted black.
I suspect black painted is correct, but could be wrong.
The steering quadrant should be brass too, not just the levers.
Hubcaps would be brass with black background:
: ^ )
Some of you are disagreeing with the Model T Encyclopedia, the MTFCI judging guidelines, and period photos. What's an innocent novice to believe?
My research reveals our turtledeck cast or forged trunk handles were painted black but had brass bezels fastened by steel rivets
That is what I have too, BUT the restorer of this known to be original (not built from various parts) 1915 Runabout had the handles brass plated?
Do you have any Ford print/information to support which is actually correct?
Ron the Coilman
I remember well Bruce McCalley's response when I once asked if information in an Encyclopedia photo was correct. He said the photo is correct, who knows about the content?
I was told, and I'd swear that I read somewhere, that the spark/throttle levers were painted black. Now I gotta go back and do more research...some rainy day. I sure's heck hope I don't have to change mine on my '15!! Or maybe they just need the paint stripped?
Apparently most levers were brass plated.
"The cover was much atter..."
"...steel with the attened ends..."
It seems the software used to print the Encyclopedia omits fl.
Please add to the list:
Corbin coil box latches.
Windshield hinge to windshield frame screws.
With the exception of the headlight rims, sidelight/tail light rims and tops, and coil box switch plate, most of these brass plated parts carried over to 1916.
Thanks Steve. Given that, I think I'll leave sleeping dogs lay. The paint on them is in fantastic shape, no need to screw things up!
OK, let's get down to details. Here are the brass radiator nuts currently available, along with a standard castle nut.
1 Are the radiator nuts correct?
2 Should the brass nuts holding the side lamps be of the radiator style, or standard?
3 Should the tail light nut be the same as the side lamp nuts, or black?
Steve -- Yes, those repro brass nuts are very close to the originals. They were used on the radiator mounting studs and all 3 lamps. I think they were used on the windshield hinges as well. You should use a brass cotter pin with them. If I can remember to do so at my shop today, I'll take a pic of an original nut.
(Message edited by coupelet on October 31, 2015)
Some folks need to do a little research, before they go posting information.
On this subject, do you think the small parts such as the castle nuts above, and other small brass plated parts were polished from the factory? I think not at this point, because it would have been too time consuming. I think the larger parts probably were. Comments?
I can't ad much but I do learn a lot from you guys! Our 16 has brass rad nuts and nut on rear oil lite
Thanks for that pic, Keith. I was thinking there was something odd about those but couldn't remember what it was.
This is a non-horn button '15 column that I think has original paint on it. I see absolutely no signs of any brass plating on levers, rods, or quadrant. This may be one of the exceptions that was noted in the article.
For what it is worth? When I was restoring the early (?) '16 center-door I had years ago, the steering column that was in the car had some original brass plating left on the pressed steel quadrant. The car had suffered a bad '50s restoration, so it was always difficult to know what was or was not really original to it. The column had been repainted black way back when, and the remaining plating had all been covered. I took it to mean that the column was probably original to the car and the car was probably originally an early '16. The column was evidence to that effect, NOT proof. It was unlikely that someone that had used so many clearly wrong late parts on a clearly earlier car would not have by chance gotten such an unusual early column.
The research I attempted to do at the time indicated that brass plated quadrants were manufactured through July '15 and continued showing up on cars for several months later. But information available at that time was not as good as what is available today. Even the Benson Research center was mostly unsorted boxes. I did at that time talk directly to both Bruce McCalley and Ray Miller.
Today, evidence indicates that brass plating may have been used even a bit later.
I will again take an opportunity to thank all those that have spent so much time researching the buried history of our model Ts> THANK YOU ALL of YOU!!!!!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Here is a pic of the radiator/lamp nuts. The two on the left are originals; the two on the right are repros. All are brass.
The original ones have square-bottom slots for the cotter keys, while the repros have round ones. The repros also have a bit more of a rounded "shoulder" at the top than the originals have, but they're pretty close.
I was quite surprised to read:
" "Murphy" fasteners (Ford never used the Murphy brand) "
Not ever? Was this just T production? Might the Murphy brand have been used on earlier models? Was this solely a money saving decision? I have seen quite a few brass era Ts with Murphy brand fasteners. What does the MTFCI judging guidelines say about Murphy brand use or exclusion?
Virtually all of the early brass T's I have ever seen have had Murphy fasteners with an "M" in a circle. It is not too difficult to tell the original from the reproductions. I have only seen one car that had Anchor brand fasteners, with an "A" in a diamond on the twist part.
There was an evolution of side curtain fasteners on Model Ts. I believe early Murphys had the cast oval base, then cast hourglass shaped base, then the oval shaped base stamped. By the time they got to 1912-1913, they were using a lot of different brands, most of them plain.
There was a lawsuit between Murphy and Dot, and I believe the original spelling of Burco was Bourque.
I've got some documentation saved somewhere...
Or you can google it!
: ^ )
I've been around a lot of unrestored Model T's. Several brands of common sense fasteners, not a single Murphy until after restoration. It would be interesting to see the purchasing records to see if Ford ever ordered any from Murphy.
Some originals are marked with a letter or trade mark but many are unmarked. By 1915 they were still brass but painted (or coated) black.
Sorry for the thread drift...
I concur, by 1915 Ford was using black common sense fasteners. They were NOT Murphy fasteners with the M in a circle.
I took a lot of photos of this unrestored '12 that belongs to a certain fellow in Harbor City, CA. There are some fasteners that have markings. None are "M". All were black originally. The car is a completely original 1912, paint and upholstery and top too. All of the buckles and footman loops are also black, something that you never see on restored examples.
I stand humbly corrected Phil! How many non - Murphys on that car, or are all of them Murphy cartouches?
Incredible! We all keep learning more. If we want to.
I have seen a number of sidelights on our Canadian sourced cars fitted with nickel plated brass dome nuts rather than brass castle nuts. Now you lot have me wanting to check if the light threads are drilled for split pins. My memory says they were not drilled. Were all production lamps drilled, up into the 20's?
Allan from down under
Royce - That's a good question. I find that these fasteners are not uniform as one might expect to see on a restored car.
Some, while marked, are simply not legible such as this one on the dash:
A few have a distinct circle, but the "M" is difficult (if not impossible) to read:
A few others do not appear to be marked:
Steve, will you be posting your final list here or on your blog when all the dust settles?
Tire tube valve stem dust covers were all nickel plated.
Ed aka #4