1914 Battery vs magneto

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: 1914 Battery vs magneto
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sam Mendenhall on Saturday, October 31, 2015 - 06:00 pm:

I thank all of you that suggested starting without a starter on my 14, On the coil box it has a place for a battery hook up. Where did they put the batteries on these cars. If you use the battery for starting do you disconnect the mag wire. I want to set the #1 coil to buzz at TDC and can't do it without a battery. Thanks Sam

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David L Corman on Saturday, October 31, 2015 - 06:22 pm:

My Dad had a hot shot battery under the front seat of his 15.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod Barrett - Anderson, IN on Saturday, October 31, 2015 - 07:29 pm:

My battery is under the rear seat. You do not disconnect the mag wire. The switch on the front of the coil box controls weather you run on Mag or Bat. Do not set #1 coil at TDC. Use a tool like TW to set the timing at 15 degrees After Top Dead Center. This way you will not incur a broken arm while trying to start your car.

Here is the link: http://www.twcomponents.com/#!the-accurate-timing-indicator/cit

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, October 31, 2015 - 09:14 pm:


Welcome to the forum, from your profile this appears to be your 2nd posting. With your first one at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/581808.html?1446069774 While you are new to the forum, it would be good to know if you are new to Model T Fords, worked on the for years, or somewhere in between those two extremes. It would help folks better know how to answer your questions.

Several folks in the previous posting where you asked about starting your newly rebuilt fresh engine suggested removing the magneto wire. As Rod mentioned above, if your car is wired correctly and the switch works properly you should not need to do that. I.e. in one position the battery would be supplying the voltage, in the middle the ignition would be off and in the other position the magneto would supply the voltage. You do NOT want to apply battery voltage to the magneto as it will demagnetize the magnets unless the flywheel is in just the right spot to help magnetize the magnets. Murphy’s law says the chances of that happening in your favor is really low.

Concerning a battery for a 1914. Originally an owner might purchase what was called a Hot-Shot battery that was used to power the coils during starting. It was a dry cell six volt and made starting easier on a cold morning etc. I didn’t see if your car was a roadster, touring, speedster, depot hack etc. Assuming it is a touring or roadster many folks place a small battery under the front seat. Some front seats have a wood divider between the gas tank and that is a great spot for a small battery. See the thread at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/10664.html for a discussion of the batteries as well as where to place them. Note some folks say having a battery next to the gas tank is not a smart idea. You can also locate it under the rear seat and just use a longer wire but use a larger diameter wire/lower gauge wire to make up for the extra distance. It doesn’t need to be a huge wire like for a 6 volt starter but a door bell wire wouldn’t be good either.

I would recommend a 6 volt but a 12 volt battery will also work. The engine will run at speed better on a 12 volt – but the 12 volt can burn up a coil if you let it sing too long while the ignition switch is on and the engine is not being cranked over. I would recommend one of the rechargeable sealed 6 volt batteries. And the Hot shot battery charger that Lang’s offers will keep it charged if you drive the car (see: https://www.modeltford.com/item/HOT-SHOT-C.aspx or if you are handy with electrical stuff you can make the charger). There is a nice wire size calculator at: http://www.wirebarn.com/Wire-Calculator-_ep_41.html but I don’t know how many amps the coils would pull on DC. From memory I think the wire on the spool hanging on the wall was 10 gauge. What ever size it was – that is what we used and it worked well from the front seat to the coil box. But I’ll let someone who understands the wire gauge and amps required for the coils to comment on that.

The TW timing tool is nice – but for years we have set the timing with out such a nice item. Please see the discussion at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/429367.html?1394578330 for several additional lower cost options. Not quite as many opinions as what is the best oil – but similar. And when running on magneto – the timing lever has some ranges but is not really advancing the timing in a linear fashion as it does when running on battery. But the car will run a lot better on a good magneto than on a 6 volt battery. Why? Good question, please see the article “The Model T Ford Ignition System & Spark Timing” by Ron Patterson & Steve Coniff at: http://www.funprojects.com/pdf/Model%20T%20Ignition%20System-Final%20Artiticle.p df [Thank you John Regan for making that available on your Fun Projects site].

Finally if you are new to Model Ts – please see the safety items discussed at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/576808.html they can be helpful to anyone new to Ts and they are a good reminder to some of us that are a little more forgetful than we used to be.

And if you haven’t checked to see where the closest local Model T chapters are, please see the listings at: http://www.mtfca.com/clubpages/chapters.htm and http://www.modelt.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=15 They can be a real source of encouragement and help you as you learn to maintain the car.
Steve Jelf has an excellent set of books he recommends for new owners on his web site at: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/ with the T section at: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG52.html and the recommended books listed at: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html

Note there are also free “how to books” on the internet such – see: http://books.google.com/books?id=uKVAAQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:xR 56bbT2W68C&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tdpWVMi4PMOjgwSAhoC4Ag&ved=0CBcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=fa lse and there are others – on the net. And the Ford Service is online at: http://mtfci2002.readyhosting.com/manuals/Model_T_Service_Manual/mtsm.html .The owners/instruction manuals are at:http://www.mtfca.com/books/bookmenu.htm . Also the Ford Instruction Course on that same page the link is: http://www.mtfca.com/books/Course.htm And to help you with parts identification etc. I like Lang’s Old Car Parts on line catalog (you can also down load it as a PDF) available from: https://www.modeltford.com/download.aspx 16 mb so on a slow connection start the down load when you are going to do something else. Many of the photos are in color. Many but not all of the part numbers are the same as those used by Ford. They also have some helpful tips in the catalog and they are great folks to deal with.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

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