Outside oil line

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Outside oil line
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Rinaldo on Sunday, November 01, 2015 - 11:50 am:

I just finished installing the outside oil line kit { not the high volume one]. I put a section of clear tubing so I could see how much oil flowed in this system. When I ran the engine there was 0/no oil flow. My guess is that adding this isn't worth the effort. Any ideas? Steve


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Sunday, November 01, 2015 - 11:55 am:

Is it a mag post outside oiler?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Sunday, November 01, 2015 - 12:07 pm:

Are you using motor oil or roofing tar for lubrication?

I had a mag post oiler, without the mag post inside, that got oil out the front end in a few seconds and about a half quart a minute, best I recollect.
I helps to have ALL of the oil line going down hill.

You probably don't get oil thru the inside oiler either, until the engine gets hot if you use heavy oil.
There have been cars run with only the outside oiler because the inside one was accidently left out or broken or plugged.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Sunday, November 01, 2015 - 12:52 pm:

The oil pipe screws in from the side of the magneto contact in most accessory style oilers. Some have been reportedly made defectively so the fitting screws in too far and the oil can't flow or flows bad. Take it off and check what it looks like inside if running it hot with proper SAE 20 (or 10w-40) oil doesn't show good flow.

If the fitting goes to far inside it can likely be fixed with a file?

(Message edited by Roger K on November 01, 2015)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Sunday, November 01, 2015 - 01:30 pm:

Steve, i relieved the inside of mine with a dremel and it pumps loads of oil to the front. More than i thought it actually would...Hope this helps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom 30 miles N of Memphis TN on Sunday, November 01, 2015 - 02:30 pm:

I still prefer my Bendix cover oiler over the mag oilers. I know mine flows a butt load. It was easy and cheap.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Rinaldo on Sunday, November 01, 2015 - 03:00 pm:

Thanks for the answers. To answer the question it is a mag. style and I have a distributor, so there is no post. I'll try enlarging the hole as pictured and see what happens. I've not seen a bendix cover style. Steve


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Sunday, November 01, 2015 - 03:34 pm:

I did as others have suggested with the mag post oiler on my '24 Speedster and relieved the inside to allow higher flow.

I also drilled the outlet and tapped it for a 1/4" NPT barbed fitting sadly I cannot find a photo of the modified interior, but the two pix below show the mag and trans cover oilers with rubber hoses running to the front, and the inlets into the front of the pan from both sides.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Sunday, November 01, 2015 - 08:07 pm:

Chris

Your transmission cover oiler is new to me. I assume its a copy of the Ford Faithful. Is it still being made, or is it from back in the day?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Sunday, November 01, 2015 - 10:37 pm:

The cast aluminum trans cover that Chris shows was a 1980s oiler made in auburn ca by a model t guy that I knew but can't remember his name. It was called the ford faithful oiler, which had nothing to do with the 1920s ford faithful oiler that was made in souther ca.
I bought one from him in 1986. I recently acquired another one like it, and also have an original stamped ford faithful oiler.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Sunday, November 01, 2015 - 11:36 pm:

Bud & Aaron: the aluminum oiler cover plate is branded Hill & Dale. I've had it for 10-15 years, acquired at some swap meet. I don't have a photo of the underside, but it has a wide mouth about 1/2"-3/4" deep. There is, obviously, a sediment trap below/behind the outlet which can be drained by removing the pipe plug at the rear.

I've always assumed it dates from the period, but it could easily be more recent.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 01:07 am:

Aaron,

Was it Bill Rader?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 01:33 am:

Here's my "oil pump". The spinning magnets force oil into the drain plug on which I drilled and installed an oil line.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 08:36 am:

Chris and Aaron:

Thanks for the info on the Hill & Dale.

Would anyone have a photo of the underside?

Transmission cover oilers are hard to find and I've been thinking of making one. I like what I see of the Hill & Dale.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 10:09 am:

I have the "left-over" Ford Faithful copy oilers made by Bill Rader - a friend of mine had new footplates machined and drilled for either 3 or 4 dip pans.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 10:21 am:

Here's the photos - took me a while to remember where they were - I have a few available.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 07:29 pm:

If the magneto post fitting is screwed in so tight as to prohibit oil from coming through, wouldn't it be touching the mag post thereby grounding the magneto?

When I rebuilt my engine in 2010, I had the problem of the brass fitting bottoming out against the mag post. I resolved this by tightening the fitting into the mag post casing, then turning it upside down and, with a scribe, scribing the threaded portion of the fitting even with the inside wall of the mag post. I then unscrewed the fitting and took a Dremel tool and ground off the threaded portion up to the scribe mark. I screwed the fitting back in and it was flush with the inside wall of the mag post housing. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Michael Rogers on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 07:37 pm:

Steve, is it possible that you don't have any magnets on the flywheel to throw oil? Since you are using a distributor it is very possible there is no magnets or mag in the transmission.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Rinaldo on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 08:38 pm:

About the magnets I'm not sure as the car has always had a distributor. I'll take the cover off the transmission and look. I also did what John Noonan did ton his pickup post. After I check I'll let you know. Steve


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tyrone Thomas - Topeka KS on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 08:45 pm:

John Noonan. I like your idea for an oiler, but I would change it a little with a 45 degree fitting rather than a 90 degree fitting. Less restriction for the flow of thrown oil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Rogahn on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 09:10 pm:

Hal, your design is a good one in my book. I'm sure it pumps more oil than the mag post design and can pump up hill as well. Ever try to measure if your setup produces any pressure?
Aaron


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 09:47 pm:

Bud I found this photo showing the underside of the Hill & Dale oiler (perched on the exhaust pipe). The inlet scoop is larger than I remembered, and I see there are also a few small holes to drizzle oil out over the rear-most drums.

At the risk of thread drift on my own post, if you could look close-up into the transmission, you would see the cracked low speed in the second photo. We discovered this bit of good news about 600 miles from home coming back from Spokane in 2011.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 10:18 pm:

The Ford Faithful oilers made in Auburn were not made by Bill Rader.
I wish I could show you a picture of mine, but I can't post pictures.
On the top they look like the Hill & Dale.
It also had a patend date of 1916 cast in the top and on the bottom a hole was drilled over each drum so it would drip plenty of oil on the trans drums right between the ends of the bands.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Tuesday, November 03, 2015 - 12:38 am:

Aaron, I have a drilled A crank and an engine driven oil pump. The engine pump is never starved for oil. I have an oil pressure gauge and it is always at 40 psi. I'll have to measure oil flow sometime.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan McEachern on Tuesday, November 03, 2015 - 02:20 am:

Aaron- the oilers you are referring to were made by our beloved Max Edmonds- the one and only. Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Tuesday, November 03, 2015 - 08:34 am:

I remember speaking with Max on several occasions - heck of a guy !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Tuesday, November 03, 2015 - 09:07 am:

Chris

Thanks for the photo. Its obvious that some thinking went into the design of the underside!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russell Prideaux Margaret River West Oz on Tuesday, November 03, 2015 - 09:18 am:

I bought this of someone here on the forum last year.
Looked pretty new, not sure how old it is.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Tuesday, November 03, 2015 - 10:27 am:

Yes! That was him, Max Edmunds. He also had Ruckstel shift knobs.
He sold a bunch of those oilers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Tuesday, November 03, 2015 - 02:26 pm:

Hi Hal.
I am running a similar A crank and oil system.

DO YOU HAVE AN EXTRA OIL SUPPLY IN AN EXTENDED SUMP UNDER THE ENGINE ?.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Rinaldo on Tuesday, November 03, 2015 - 04:29 pm:

I modified the magneto pick up point like in the photos above and checked that the engine does have oil slingers. When I started the engine and did get some oil through the pipe going forward, not a lot but some. I guess I'll have to live with it until I can find a high flow kit. Thanks for all the help. Steve


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 06:06 am:

Look at Gary Tillstrom's bendix housing oiler in this thread: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/72043.html?1226716561

Easy to copy and it should give quite a gush of oil to the front of the pan :-)

b1
b2
b3


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 07:15 am:

Here is another approach...collecting oil from starter ring gear....seems to work.
oiler


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 07:28 am:

Yes, that's the most efficient method - though you'll have to pull the hogshead, so it's not as easy bolt on as other options that flows less.

Here's the high volume oiler as a full kit:
http://www.texastparts.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TTP&Product_C ode=T3081-HVOLKit&Category_Code=k

Or just as castings to complete yourself:
http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/oil-line-brackets


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 08:05 am:

As a note...the available high volume kits work with systems which still have magnets. The one I illustrate, and made, is for systems with magnets removed. The flywheel gear is the primary source of oil flow so the pickup needs to be positioned accordingly on the hogshead.
Actually, I really don't know what goes on inside that hogshead..oil flow wise.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 08:11 am:

OOps...perhaps I should have mentioned the possibility of oil paddles/slingers on the flywheel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Rinaldo on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 04:37 pm:

Snyder's has the high volume kit and it's on its way. Steve


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 04:59 pm:

Bob from way up there and from down under. No extra oil sump. As long as the oil pressure is up I don't worry. How's the weather down there?? We finally had snow at our 2n home (Cabin) 7000 feet up in the Sierra. Picture is from a live camera.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 09:37 pm:

Hi Hal.
THANKS FOR THE INFO.
Just been talking by E/Mail to Bill Millard & Kristy [nee Towe] and they say you just got about 3/4'' of rain.
I will try and send a picture of my oil pick up and compare notes .

Regards Bob T


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter B. Ratledge on Thursday, November 05, 2015 - 08:17 am:

Gentlemen,I have never seen so many differnt ways to get oil to the front of the engine. I show my 1911 and drive drive it. I can not have a outside oil line,because it did not come with it from the factory.
I use the ACCESSORY internal oil line that Langs sell(page 62 in his catologe). IT bolts on the inside of the oil pan on both sides,(passengers and driver's side). It provides 200% more oil than the standard set-up.
I have been using it for years with no problems.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Thursday, November 05, 2015 - 12:50 pm:

Russell,

I believe I am the one who sold you that oiler. It is a nice casting. I forgot who I sent it to and have now found the other part I mentioned I have. I'm sending you a p.m. to see if you need that part.

Terry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Thursday, November 05, 2015 - 12:57 pm:

Because I could get no lubricants out of my various mag post oilers I developed a really good hogshead oiler. I even wrote up a little article on it for the web (which I don't have a copy of right now).

It is really common for the mag post oiler to be non-functional. Is is a small hole up on top of the mag. The mag blocks most oil from entering the oiler as does its center contact post.

My design (and the one a well know vendor copied from it) produces about a gallon a minute of flow and uses a 1/2" oil line to handle that flow and pressure (7psi).

TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Thursday, November 05, 2015 - 10:42 pm:

Terry, I was just going to ask if you would post that article you did about the Mountain pan dams and also your detailed info after your testing with oil dispersion inside the Hogshead.

That bunch of testing of oil flows is one that should be revisited again!

I was wondering if someone would comment on the side mounted style that the vendors offer that was like your original, In my opinion it is much better than the mag post type.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Thursday, November 05, 2015 - 10:57 pm:

Terry, good to hear from you!! Your airplane fly OK?? Got more Pictures?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Friday, November 06, 2015 - 12:16 am:

I have one of those Ford Faithful on the coupe, I seem to remember that it was a door prize from Max at a Gold Country Tour.
It has always worked well until last year. I put a new exhaust pipe on the car just before a long tour. On the way back the oil line rubbed against the exhaust pipe, wore through and there were oil fumes everywhere. My problem....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Friday, November 06, 2015 - 05:34 am:

Hi Hal.
Jus finished fitting the pressurised oil system the the model A crank in ''T'' block.

DON'T THINK I WILL DO THAT EXERCISE AGAIN ?.


.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, November 06, 2015 - 12:16 pm:

Hmm, interesting. I hope you used silver-solder on those fittings, otherwise, IMHO, vibration will loosen and soft-soldered joints. I would also worry about copper work-hardening and cracking.
Looks like you did a tremendous amount of fitting there!


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