Model T as a horseless carriage?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Model T as a horseless carriage?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By justin cox on Sunday, November 01, 2015 - 06:47 pm:

So today in traffic I was behind a mid 1970's Chevy truck and noticed that it had the "horseless carriage" license plate on it. It made me laugh, because I don't even think back in the 20's they called most of our new"T's" a horseless carriage except for maybe some of the earliest examples? Looking at the DMV site for the great (ghetto) state of New Mexico your car only has to be 35 years old meaning a 1980 model year to be legally classified as a horseless carriage.



My question is do you know when people largely stopped calling automobiles a horseless carriage and just called them a car or automobile?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Sunday, November 01, 2015 - 07:00 pm:

Brass era. HCCA recognizes 1915 or older. Idaho offers a classic plate as well as an old timer plate.

Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, November 01, 2015 - 07:18 pm:

Califunny and some number of other states adopted the 1922 or earlier as Horseless Carriage for licensing purposes. At one time (several decades ago), hotrodders wanted to avoid potential legal restrictions with licensing. Which is why 1923 is the "BIG" year for hotrods.
Some states eventually added another tier to historic vehicle licensing. Historic Vehicle plates in Califunny are for up to 25 years old or older. Such rules vary a LOT by state.
Califunny also has an allowance for "Horseless Carriage" to include hearses up until 1939 (I think). Every now and then I will see what at first looks like a classic era car (CCCA) with the red Horseless Carriage plates and I will do a double take. Then realize that it is technically a hearse. This was because hearses were traditionally horse drawn much later and when the Horseless Carriage plate laws were first enacted, it seemed to make sense. Today, it seems ridiculous.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Sunday, November 01, 2015 - 08:29 pm:

Nevada if your car is 20 years or older you can get classic vehicle plates funnest was on a late 70s motor home reason one gets them it get you around smog laws


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, November 01, 2015 - 08:32 pm:

Justin,

Like anything else dealing with humans -- some folks will be early adopters and other folks will hang on to the old term until they die. But a reasonable time frame would be the publication of the "Horseless Age" magazine. It was about the early cars that they were forecasting would replace the horse. They started publication in Nov 1895 and they changed the title to "The Automobile" in Jul 1909. (Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_Industries_(magazine) )

Many of the so called Highwheelers looked like a horseless carriage and those continued to be produced past 1909.

International Harvester Produced highwheelers into 1915. See: http://vihtr.com/1907-1915/ where the photo below is posted as a 1915.



The Holsman Highwheeler looked even more like a horseless carriage and was produced 1900-1911 see photos and article at: http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/holsman.cfm

And the states use their own definitions of what is an Antique, Horseless Carriage, Classic, Veteran etc. plated car. And the states often have different restrictions from drive it any way you want -- to very restrictive such as drive it to from parades or in club tours etc.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Sunday, November 01, 2015 - 09:12 pm:

Horseless Carriage Plates in Florida are issued for pre-war cars, the second one that is. Post war collector cars get Antique Plates. As an added bonus, Horseless Carriage plates are issued for a one time fee and are good as long as you own the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Sunday, November 01, 2015 - 09:19 pm:

Just terminology to differentiate between regular and antique plates. Doesn't make sense to us because it's usually set up by morons that couldn't tell a horseless carriage from a trolley car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Sunday, November 01, 2015 - 09:25 pm:

Hap Tucker wrote:

"and other folks will hang on to the old term until they die"

My eighty five year old maiden aunt still calls that big white metal thing in the kitchen, the one that keeps food cold or frozen, "the ice box".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Sunday, November 01, 2015 - 09:33 pm:

California has two styles of plates. Horseless Carriage up and including 1922, and Historical Vehicle plates up to 25 years old.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Whelihan Danbury, WI on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 06:28 am:

WI has two types of plates: Collector and Antique. Antique plates can basically only be used on cars driven in parades, displays, or organized tours. That's it! No driving a car with Antique plates to get a loaf of bread at the store or take a drive on a nice day. Cars with Collector plates can be driven anywhere EXCEPT in the month January. In that case you need to get regular annual plates. YOM plates can be displayed during special events like tours and car shows, but only if you keep the regular Antique or Collector plates in the can with you. Knowing WI DMV there may be other rules and restrictions, but that's the only ones I am aware of at present.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 06:50 am:

Bill,

I thought everyone called "that big white metal thing in the kitchen" an ice box... I remember when we still has ICE houses that sold block ice for the big wooden box in the kitchen (the one before the white metal box showed up). I guess that may mean I'm older than I thought...

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 07:09 am:

Florida has 2 types of plates also. Antique plate which is blue and has to be renewed each year and Horseless Carriage plate which is red and is permanent.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eubanks, Powell, TN on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 08:07 am:

Seems like the rodent rodders have abused antique plates and caused grief for real antiques.
Makes you want to call the law when you see one of those plates on a butchered car. Here in TN antique plates are perm. but its only a matter of time till the abuse causes a change to that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 08:54 am:

It really drives me crazy when I see so old junkie P/U or car, that is used for daily use going up the road with an Antique plate.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 10:17 am:


It doesn't bother me in the slightest to see a junky old pickup with antique plates. The law doesn't say it has to be pretty, and doesn't dictate where or when I can drive it. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 10:34 am:

It especially drives me crazy when the old truck has crazy yellow-green wheels ! ;-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 10:51 am:

Steve;
In Fla., the antique plate is issued to drive it to car show and events like tours and the like.
Not for daily drivers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 11:08 am:

Yes, the laws and regulations vary widely among the states. So far the Kansas legislature has been busy making a mess of other things and hasn't raised harassing vehicle laws to the fine art achieved in some other states.|


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 04:30 pm:

Horseless Carriage plates in Califunny have strict restrictions for use. The DMV sometimes will tell you that you cannot drive for pleasure or to the grocery or hardware store. We nod politely and say "I won't". Those rules are not generally enforced, but could get you in trouble. The law does allow for some reasonable use for test drives and vehicle maintenance which helps.
They are much more strict with the Historic Vehicle plates. Otherwise, I would put them on my dad's '68 Chevy pickup. The state wants full commercial weight fees for the 3/4 ton pickup and want to charge me $176 per year just for permission to drive it on their roads. The thing is so low geared that driving it over 55 mph risks blowing the engine, so even as modern use, its usefulness is limited. I have had it registered "non-op" for three years now. I would like to drive it a little bit, keep it loose. But cannot justify the nearly $200 fees for a couple hundred miles driving.
Even the local dump "transfer station" has a sign posted that they WILL notify the DMV if any vehicle driving in with anything is using Historic Vehicle plates.
As a point of clarification. Califunny does not differentiate between commercial vehicles used commercially, or a private pickup used for personal use.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 04:49 pm:

Missouri limits historic vehicle plates to the standard collection of shows, club events and driving to repair facilities, but thanks to the late Bud Barnes (state legislator and Model T club member), the law was rewritten about 15 or so years ago to add 1,000 "personal miles" a year. This is Bud the day he and I went to the high school to talk to the kids about the Model T.




As far as terminology goes, my great-grandmother lived to be 96 and never referred to a car as anything other than "the machine." :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 04:53 pm:

Thankyou Dick and Bud! I put on some "personal miles" on my T yesterday. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 11:37 pm:

The more I read of the ridiculous nonsense that goes on in some other states, the more glad I am that I live in Kansas. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 11:27 pm:

Ah shucks Steve, it aint that bad.
I just renewed my '84 Volvo registration and today got it smog checked.
The registration was 105 green ones and the smog check was only $80.
My '51 pickup will be due New Years Eve ($115),
The T is overdue, $150, one of the Nashes is over due($150), one is on Non-op and my MG is only a little over a hundred a year.
Tell me Steve, are there any places around there for rent? A big garage and a small house would be nice. I only have 6 cars plus my wife's. And a small motorcycle.
At least we don't have to register a bicycle!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, November 05, 2015 - 02:52 am:

My 1951 pickup is $17 a year. So is the 1973 Suburban. And each Model T. What's a smog check? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zachary Dillinger - Charlotte, MI on Thursday, November 05, 2015 - 09:45 am:

My Model T is $29 a year, at least for now until Michigan's knuckleheaded road funding plan takes effect and it goes up by 40%. My daily driver Lincoln already costs $139 a year to plate... now we will have to add on another $55 starting in 2017. But, hey, at least they aren't raising our taxes, right? /sarcasm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, November 05, 2015 - 11:44 pm:

Steve,
Trust me, you can't cash it!! (smog check)
:-)
Aaron,
You certain about the bicycle? I thought Hayward required their registration! :-)

Steve,
Wish I could put wood like that in my '53 DB P/U, but I noticed last time I moved it that a bunch of rotten wood wood was on the ground under it. Looked up and, Uh oh!! (the bed is full of "stuff" so I can't see the bottom! Part of the "stuff" is the original engine (found another engine that isn't a fog generator like the original one is).
:-)


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