T roadster went for 7,000 I believe. TT went for 1,500 to my group. 1929 Chrysler model 75 went for 29,000 to my group. I got one T engine for 90.00, one went for 25.00, one went for 150.00 and one I don't know.
My group got 6 TT rear wheels and rims, several front wheels. Here's the real shame. Farm tractors went from 200.00 and up. The house and land, highest bid was 89,000. Reserve was 120.000. It was pulled out of auction.
There was much more stuff but lost track of bids.
Any pictures? We love pictures
No, sorry Roger. The auctioneer was moving fast from pile to pile. In the time to take pictures, I could have missed a bid. Search higgenbotham auctions in florida and see if the Ross Slagle, Overbrook, ks auction is still there.
If anyone loaded a 4 dip oil pan that was in the s/w corner of the south barn with the buyers # 187 on it, I would like to have it back. I bought it because I need it. No questions asked. Thanks.
Dan, That's happened to me a couple of times at auctions. Now days I don't buy anything that doesn't sit right next to me.
Dan, I saw it also. It was in the group that had a t engine.
I doubt you will see it again. I sent you a mail.
Dan, if it helps right now, I contacted the executor after reading your post. I was told at least two people were caught taking stuff not belonging to them. One of them was in the garage area that part was. He was approached by the executors son and words were exchanged. She also said that the auctioneer staff did go down to speak with the guy. So the executor says.
I sent the auctioneer company an email saying as such. When I get a response, I will email you with what I find out. I'm sure I will hear something from them either by mail or phone being that the company auctions million dollar Real Property deals with the state of Kansas and my wife is the states Real Property Assistant Director.
I used to have that problem from time to time at auctions. Those type of thieves always act dumb if caught and say I thought it was in my stuff, or I got confused as the sale was moving so fast and I thought I bought it ect ... I now always have a roll of flouecent survey tape with me. When I buy a pile I wrap the tape around it, (the whole pile) then I try to keep the small goodies close to me. and move individual things into my taped up piles. The brightly colored tape makes it very hard for them to say "I thought it was mine" and they probably move on to some other "target to steal" I have not lost anything in about 15 years that I have been doing that. I also do the "tape thing at swap meets. I am sometimes moving so fast and if I can not carry it or I bought large lots of things I just pile them up, and wrap them up with lots of tape. You can see my piles 100 foot away. I write down the space number on my note pads and move on. (if it is a rare item or "smalls" I keep them with me or take them back to my spaces, but lots of times I am buying common but very good items. As far as I know I have never lost anything yet. If at Chickasha this year you see piles of stuff wrapped in flourcent orange or green tape, Sometimes I use both colors at the same time. It probably is my stuff
The auction company undoubtedly explained at the beginning of the auction that the ownership of the property passes at the fall of the hammer and it is the buyer's responsibility to protect their purchases. They have no obligation to protect what you brought and there is probably little they can do about the theft.
It is the same as you putting something in your car after a purchase at Walmart, leaving the doors unlocked and expecting Wally to watch it for you. It is not their responsibility.
The best thing you can do at an auction is to carry a small can of brightly colored, odd colored spray paint. Wally sells them for 88@. Neon purple , for example. Give what you buy a quick hit with the paint before you move on. It will at least make your case for ownership if somebody is seen with what you claim is yours.
For what it's worth, I would be very careful of threatening retaliation against one of the biggest and richest auction companies in America by involving my wife's government employment. She might find herself unemployed after the investigation if anybody makes any threats of retaliation against Higgenbotham. His lawyers will be on that before you can say, "I didn't mean that the way it sounded in the email and letter."
They undoubtedly know a lot of people in government if they are doing business with the state of Kansas. They sell millions and millions of dollars worth of property world wide and are one of the few auction companies in America licensed, bonded and insured in EVERY state in America.
Extortion is a Federal crime. So is collusion. I will guarantee that Marty has an attorney or a team of attorneys who that are used to dealing with disgruntled bidders and who understand very well how auction law, extortion, threats, threats of extortion and retaliatory slander is viewed by the courts.
I'm just a little piddly auctioneer with a little piddly business compared to Higgenbotham but I will guarantee you that if you start making threats to me about what you are going to do you had better be knowledgeable about the law and be ready to defend yourself in court.
Come to think of it, you don't want me coming down out of the back of my sale truck at an auction if you are running your mouth in the crowd, either. I've only done that twice in 35 years and 410 auctions but when it was over the guy was gone and I was back selling. We are running a video from the time you park your car until you are paid in full and loaded. Every minute of the auction, the registration line, the selling, the bidders, the pay line, the money you pay with, the load out, the whole deal. Every thing you do at one of my auctions in right there in living color. With today's phone cameras and hundreds of people in the crowd who are on our side and like our auctions............not too wise to get mouthy or threaten me or my crew or try to register under a false name or pay with counterfit money.
Well stated Mr. Howe
Donnie, I did see several people painting a bright mark on their stuff. I wondered why. Now I know.
Stan. I did tell Marty hello. No I do not expect Marty to be able to do anything. I just mentioned my wife and marty to no doubt hear back as to whether or not this one guy was spoken too.
it is a darn shame there are people out there who have no regard for others. this is only my second ever auction and learn a great deal from both Marty and watching people in general.
Even thougth the auctioneer (Marty Higgenbotham)made it VERY clear as to how far he would prosecute theives, there are some people who simply don't care. He scared me straight.
I've been to a zillion auctions and always watch my purchases very close or load them up. I was caught up in the auction and when I went back to get it, it was gone. I blame no one but myself for being careless.
HOWEVER....Thanks to this Forum, the pan was located and the problem resolved. Thanks to those involved and the words of advise on this site.
At the auction in Yankton a couple of weeks ago some stuff I had bought grew legs and walked off. I only paid a couple of bucks for it, but that doesn't save the thief from being worthless trash. Before I go to another auction I'll be investing in a couple of rattle cans and some day-glo tape.
Dan I'm glad you got your part. I am amazed you did.
Steve, I'm with you on the spray can. What I saw at this auction was a team of two guys. One bid and one marked part won with a bright paint and carried the part. Anything to big to carry would stay in place with paint all over it. I thought that was a good idea especially as fast as the auctioneer was moving.
This was my second only auction so do not know the ways around an auctioning. But it does sicken me for those who steal without regard. I hope that at some auction in the future I catch someone carting off a part of mine. I no doubt will stop them and turn them in to the auction company.
Now I had a different problem at a recent estate auction.
As executor we had to clear out an estate with a barn full of treasures including lots of tools, engines etc. Auctioneer did a great job. Some stuff went low, some high and overall I was very satisfied. Problem was that buyers did not take all their stuff!
Pickup with a camper, buyer took the truck, and dumped the camper in the field next to the barn. Someone purchased a large trailer with many trailer tires on the bed. Left the tires and took the trailer. Another customer bought a large diesel engine of a few dollars (scrap value) and took a few parts off and left the rest. Left me with a $500 dumpster/cleanup bill after the auction.
One guy bought a very large KR Wilson arbor press (big) paid $250 and then just left it there saying he would be back for it in the morning...never came back!
An employee of mine had the good timing to catch a guy stealing stuff out of the back
of his truck, getting right up on him and putting the muzzle of his sidearm against the
neck of the thief. Cops were summoned and thief taken off to rack up taxpayer expenses.
Ten days later he was released. No charges filed. The thief had not "left the scene" with
We had a spook unit moving through our AO in AFG. They left a "calling card" sticker
that showed a masked face and their motto: "Problem Solved, Problem Stays Solved"
Some people just need to be dead.
Taking parts isn't the only "crime" that happens during an auction. I've seen at previews folks moving stuff from one lot to another--and not to keep related parts together (that kind of moving is more akin to making the lots more useful to buyers as many auctioneers have no idea what the stuff is, "just pile this stuff together!") but their intention was to stash good stuff under bad stuff & get it cheap.
And this happens at all kinds of auctions, especially those "estate auctions" where everything under the sun is going up for bid.
Jon, here is how to solve at least some of that if you do another one. Or at least this is how I do it. At the beginning of the auction state a definite time that everything has to be removed or it will revert to the auction company or owners.
At the end of the auction take a bid from your scrappers for a percentage of whatever scrap is left at that time. As part of that bid, tell the scrapper bidders that they have to take all metal remaining but can leave whatever is not metal.
I also announce when the auction is over that everything on the property is now sold and that anyone entering the auction property with out a paid receipt to pick up a purchase within the allotted time will be considered to be trespassing and will face charges of such if they are on the site and if they take anything it is theft, not abandoned property. It will all belong to the buyer or the scrapper.
Say you give them a week to come pick up purchases like tractors, machinery, etc. At 6 PM the day it is over the scrapper owns everything on the property. You can have somebody monitor what is there or not but most of those guys will be honest with you and come in and remove all the scrap iron they bought as well as what is left.
Then, depending on the deal you make with the auction company, either you or the auction company or the property owner - whoever - goes in and cleans up what is left so the auction site is clean. We charge the seller back for that sometimes but usually just figure it is part of the service. I have a couple guys go out and clean the place up with one of our trucks and haul it away, run the tractor and rake around it or just hand pick and load, whatever we need to do.
Last auction we had where there was a lot of scrap the scrap bid was 20% of whatever remained. About a month after the auction I got a check for $420 from the scrapper. Hired a guy for $100 to go out to the auction site and haul off a pickup load of stuff and the place was cleaned up and everybody was happy. I also left my old Ford loader tractor there for a week after the auction for people to use if they needed it to load. This is Montana, you can do things like that.
Bear in mind that I am not, never have been and never will be low bidder. I won't bid on an auction. I have been at this for 35 years, know what it takes to make a profit and like to be in the deal to where I know I am going to make some money and be able to buy steak dinners when we are done. If they are just looking for somebody to work cheap they can find them all over. But they won't be back two weeks after the auction cleaning the place up.
David, we know what EVERYTHING is by the time we do the listing and organize it to get it ready for the auction. You are right. A lot of auctioneers don't know what any thing is, just throw it out in piles to get rid of it.
I am never low bidder when they are looking for an auctioneer because I refuse to bid. If they want to hire idiots to give the stuff away that's up to the seller. I like to go to those auctions. Then I like to be high bidder.
I believe you; from reading your posts the past years & your photos, I think you're one classy guy. Back when I was going to auctions around here, I could tell who was doing a good job & who wasn't (and who had shills too!). Haven't been to one in decades, probably all the players around here have changed!
Not only do some guys not know what they're selling, there are some who sell in large lots at a breakneck pace to get through it all. At an estate auction I attended recently a member of the family told the auctioneers they were going too fast and should slow it down, but they didn't. He was not pleased. With as much stuff as they were selling it probably should have been a two day sale.
I wonder if it would be worthwhile at an auction to hire a sheriff's deputy to provide security. Might make someone think a bit harder about thieving, and might keep someone from getting hurt in a confrontation.
What's wrong with someone getting hurt in a confrontation ? Do what training needs
to be done to make sure it is the other guys who is getting hurt, and then follow the old
Hit 'em hard, hurt 'em fast, get it done.
Always counting on "someone else" to make things right is not what a civil society is
based on, You see it, you own it. Step up and do the right thing. Pretty simple, really.
That happens a lot, especially at government type auctions or big auctions where there are a lot of smaller items that can be highgraded off. Most of the time a couple of guys on my staff with yellow caps and vests that say "security" is all it takes but a couple years ago we had a two day collector car auction that we lost some things at. I had a guy hired to do some security presence and all he did was hang around the good looking girls doing the cashier work and we had a guy walk out with a box of gauges for a 47 Chevy right under his nose. He was a one time employee. The other thing that really cuts down on theft are the notices posted that all activity is being recorded - which it is - and the visibility of the security guys with cameras.
That said, here we have very few problems with theft or bad checks or fake money but it is a topic of much and serious discussion at every auctioneer convention. That is also one of the reasons for on-line only auctions instead of the traditional live auction with hundreds of people milling around.
I tell every new employee or helper this - and it is true - some people come to see what they can buy and some come to see what they can steal.
We have only been hit once with false registration since we now require valid ID to get a bidder card but it is a problem everywhere. Several years ago I was helping with an auction and a guy that I had not seen before suddenly became my best buyer. That is not unusual. He bought all of the reloading supplies, equipment and ammunition; paid top dollar for all of it (since he wasn't going to pay anyway what did he care what the bid was?) loaded it up and left without paying. At the end of the auction, several hours later, they were looking for him and found out that he had registered as Bob Smith, Cedar Road, Great Falls with a 727-5555 phone number. That's the local information number by the way. Never found him. About $650 worth of stuff. My guess was he was from Alberta and was back across the border long before the auction was over. Quick chance to pick up some stuff.
We have to watch for Canadian money all the time, too. A guy will come to pay with $100 bills, count them out to pay and will slide a couple Canadian bills in the pile. That's a $60 discount if we don't catch it since exchange is about 30%. We had a Canadian try to pay for an $8000 vintage car with Canadian money and got really nasty with the cashier when she told him the exchange rate was 27% and it took another $2000 Canadian to make up for it. Then he wanted to pay with a check which we refused since we had clearly stated "No Canadian checks accepted unless drawn on a US bank." After a little discussion he decided he was wrong and suddenly found another $2000 in another pocket. We held the car until we had the money looked at by the Border Patrol, who said it was OK. We were close to the Canadian border so it just took them a few minutes to come to the auction. He was considerably less mouthy once the boys in the green uniforms showed up. They will send you home and put you on the "do not enter the US again list pretty quick."
I would never have believed some of the things people will try and do get away with. Little old ladies with blue hair and a $500 jacket will slip a little set of dessert spoons in their pocket, etc. Guys will try to load stuff up before it is sold or will disable vehicles so they won't start, etc. I could write a bunch more but need to get to the shop, let's just say there is plenty of reason to make people show ID's to register and you have to watch everybody all the time, people are amazing and the same little old lady who wouldn't steal a pack of life savers from Wally World will steal at an auction and think nothing of it.
That is also why auctions with bigger and more valuable items are held during the week --- so we can call the bank and verify a check.
This doesn't happen so much in Montana but it does happen and there are places where you just about have to have one deputy for every attendee and you are still going to lose some stuff. The internet makes information about auctions readily available over a wide area and we no longer get just the local guys. Somebody from the southeast can drive to Montana or the Dakotas, buy a tractor with false registration or payment and have it in Mexico and sold for cash before the auction company knows it was a theft. Pays for the trip pretty quick.
"What's wrong with someone getting hurt in a confrontation?"
When someone can break into your home, get hurt doing it, and successfully sue you for damages, there is plenty wrong with it.
I was replying to R V's comment about hiring deputies when I said "That happens a lot," not addressing the comment about confrontation. We are pretty good at confrontation if the need arises, which it has.
However, accusing someone of theft in front of the crowd can cause a lot of problems at the auction. You always have to remember from this side of the microphone that the job for today is to get top dollar for the seller. The unsold merchandise is the highest priority.
This gets hammered in to every head at auction school: Somebody is going to be in charge of the auction, it had better be you!
I'm in charge of mine as are most good auctioneers. You just have to blow past the loud mouths, the bidders that want to argue with you, the general jerks, the people who just want to disrupt the auction until it gets to the point where you have to deal with it, then you had better be ready to deal with it. My answer to most jerks in the crowd is just turn up the mic a little and sell something. You also have to remember that 99% of the crowd is on your side, they came to an auction, not to listen to some drunk loudmouth in the crowd try to disrupt the auction. There are enough big guys there that they can remove somebody pretty easily. Some on my crew and some who are more than willing to help if you need them.
We have only had one or two little deals in 35 years, they were resolved quickly, one by removing the loudmouth from the auction, the other by me jumping down out of the back of the sale truck and going over and asking him what shop he owned because I was going to come in Monday and be a real a hole because that is what he was doing at my business. He had already been told to shut up by a couple people in the crowd. I guess he decided he didn't want me coming out of the back of the pickup again. That was 20 years ago when I was still pretty handy and was ready for whatever he had. I think that story got around. Haven't had that happen since.
One of the last times I went to an auction was the estate of a car/junk collector up in Quincy, CA. Now you don't arrive at Quincy by accident; it's up in the hills on a, well, state Highway, but still, you are in the "middle of nowhere" there. The auction was poorly advertised, so not many buyers there, and there was LOTS of stuff to buy, so much that they had two auctioneers going (lousy deal, I thought, as you had to decide which piles you were most interested in & follow that guy) They'd moved the stuff to the county fairgrounds, and it was fairly organized, although the parts for car A would be over here, and car A over there. Anyways there was a lot of model T & A heads and the auctioneer was having a hard time getting the bidding going. I was bidder 17 (funny the things you remember when everything else is forgotten!)and I thought "well, let's get this going!" so I raised my paddle (think it was just a slip of paper) and said "One Dollar!" thinking that would generate some more bidding. Well it didn't! "Sold! One Dollar, bidder 17!" OK, I could resell them at that price (I did, with a pretty nice profit). I'm looking over another lot and I hear, "Where's my dollar bidder?" So I raise my hand and go over to the pile--a bunch of brass lamps in pieces, or dented, " Hmm, I nod yes, "Sold, Bidder 17!" This happened numerous times. I left with my Datsun p/u completely full and overloaded! (actually lost the brakes on one hill).
Due to the poor turnout many folks left with real bargains. I was nearly broke at the time or I would have had a couple of complete model As for under $1K (I think the pretty complete '31 Slant windshield sedan went for about $800). OK, it WAS 25 years ago, but even then they were steals! At this auction I think the crowd was actually trying to be helpful to each other; more than once I heard someone tell a successful bidder, "the rest of the parts you'll need are over in that lot." The one part the also kept bidding down was you had to remove your buys by the next day. Well, if you'd purchased something that needed a trailer, and you didn't come with one, it would be kind of hard to even get to a U-haul dealer and back in time--yes, Quincy is that remote!
Times were different then too. . . .
Hey Stan, I sure would like to come to one of your auctions some time....A Model T type auction, that is.
I appreciate the organization and security, but of course, hearing your spiel and banter as it goes on is fun too.
Maybe some day.... Got any good Model T auctions coming up?
Maybe some of Auction Company's. lawyers or governmental pals in the kansas area could swing by and pick up the AUCTION TODAY signs still posted.
lol, they are still out there?