Engine serial number

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Engine serial number
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allen Brintnall on Thursday, November 05, 2015 - 08:06 pm:

I recently purchased a motor with a low serial nmber, but it has a small s preceeding the number and KAN following the number. My book does not tell me what these letters designate, If I read correctly, it is a 1911 engine. I assume the s and KAN have something to do with where it was manufactured. Thanks for any help. Allen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, November 05, 2015 - 08:39 pm:

The letters are not a factory item. Replacement engines came from the factory with serial numbers, but replacement blocks were unnumbered. They were supposed to be stamped with the number of the ruined block they were replacing. Perhaps your block was a replacement and the letters were added by whoever installed it. Have you checked the block for a casting date?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, November 05, 2015 - 08:41 pm:

The KAN might indicate that it's a number assigned by the Kansas DMV.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, November 05, 2015 - 08:46 pm:

NO. The model T did not come with any letters in the number, however, sometimes a block that was issued a new title or rebuilt could have different numbers.

If you can post a photo of both sides of the block someone might be able to give a ball park year. Describe the block as best you can if you can't post photos. Is it open valve block, one valve door or two. Is it setup for generator? Does it have two bolt holes at the back? Google "mtfca blocks" and you should get lots of photos of the blocks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Thursday, November 05, 2015 - 08:48 pm:

Allen,

From your profile this appears to be your first posting, so welcome to the forum! Also please let us know if you have been around Model Ts a lot or if you have just started working with them.

So far I do not remember seeing or hearing of Ford USA Model T serial numbers with a letter before or after the serial number with the exception of the “B” serial number engines discusses at: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/11-12Ser.htm . Someone else may recall others, but at the moment I do not.

However, Ford of Canada usually did have a letter in front of the serial numbers for the engines they assembled in Canada. On page 539, of “Model T Ford” by Bruce McCalley (R.I.P.), he mentions that normally the letter C was in front of the Canadian engine serial number. But he also mentions that “HC” and “SC” have been noted. A USA Jan 1911 engine would have had a 34,xxx or so starting number and a Dec 1911 USA block falls into that “black hole” where the information is very cloudy but in the 8x,xxx to 9x,xxx range is possible. But it still would have been a five digit serial number. Ref pages 504-506 McCalley. But if that was a Canadian serial number it would have been from “earlish” 1914 calendar year to late 1916 calendar year. (Ref chart below. Thank you to Steven Miller who sent us copies of those scans. See the posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/55246.html?1210428134
for additional information and additional Canadian serial numbers. ) Note a Canadian engine from the 1914ish – 1916ish time frame would normally have the “Made in USA” chiseled or ground off.



Note a Canadian engine from the 1914ish – 1916ish time frame would normally have the “Made in USA” chiseled or ground off.

If you post some photos of your engine, it could be a big help if figuring out what year it is. I.e. a 1911 engine would still have pipe plugs in the side of the engine instead of the later pressed in freeze plugs. There should also be a casting date on the engine block. An early 1911 engine would be an open valve engine. Etc. Note there were actually some Model T look-a-like engines produced by other companies. And it is possible you may have one of those?

Again welcome to the forum.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, November 05, 2015 - 10:06 pm:

Me bad, For US production cars some had letter B in front of number (early) rest did not. :-)Forgot about them US "B" and Canadian "C" engines.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allen Brintnall on Thursday, November 05, 2015 - 11:12 pm:

Thanks for the response. Yes, I am new to the post. I have owned the old girl for over 30 years. It has been under cover. Someone installed a starter and dropped something in the flywheel area and just dismantled the magneto system. That is what I am working with. My motor, 1926 was in worse shape than what I thought. It was a running vehicle until the starter catastrouphy. The motor I ran across has a good crank, rods etc., but no back bolt holes for the hoggshead with the starter mount. So, I am struggling just a little. Your input has been helpful. Allen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, November 06, 2015 - 12:51 am:

Allen,
The back bolt engine & hogshead (transmission cover) with the bolts are '26-27 only. There are some other minor difference on the later motors too. So what year is your T reported to be?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, November 06, 2015 - 03:09 am:

Ford also sold engines to many companies for many uses. Farm implements, railroad equipment, boat engines, and power supplies were common among many other things. Most of those engines were sold without serial numbers. Some, not all, of these engines were assigned numbers by the company that used them. "s KAN" could mean a serial number assigned by the state of Kansas, or it could refer to any one of many companies or various applications.
Model T engine blocks did change a lot over the years. Many of the changes were minor. Most changes involved a crossover period where both the earlier and later versions were both being used. All that said, just based upon changes, any block should be able to be dated to within a four year span. Most blocks within three years, and most year blocks within two years. Most blocks before about 1920 should be dated closely because they will have a casting date on them unless it has been modified or removed.
If your motor is a proper '26, you really should not use an earlier block on it because the '26/'27 motors use bolts between the hogshead and the motor block for rigidity. The earlier blocks do not have any bolt hole embossments for that purpose. The later pan has a larger four dip bottom cover, and because of that, is weaker than the earlier pan which has only a three dip cover.

You have a '26 TT truck? Many of our regulars on here are big fans of trucks. Here, they are loved and respected. And a lot of us would love to see photos of it.
Welcome.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


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