Cannot seperate uni joint from engine.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Cannot seperate uni joint from engine.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson. Moruya, NSW, OZ on Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 10:20 pm:

I hope you can offer me some advice here.
Yesterday I temporarily fitted the new engine into the frame. When marrying up the universal to the ball bearing 4th main, it was a tight fit but I eventually got it all into situ.
The chassis still has to be painted, the drive shaft ball has to be greased up and a gasket fitted, so this morning I tried to remove the engine.
Without success.
It seems the uni joint is stuck fast inside the rear of the engine.
Has anybody else had this problem? Is it a common problem?
Any advice as to how I can separate the two would be most welcome.
Cheers,
Rob


(Message edited by rob patterson on November 08, 2015)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 10:46 pm:

Take the bolts out
Have a beer
Just funning you sir
Seriously take the hogs head bolts looks try pull it this will tell if it's the u joint or the 4th main cap


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 10:53 pm:

Yes Rob, had this problem a few years ago, a bad new uni joint, instead of the square shaft being machined with .0015" clearance, some clown made it the other way, "too fat' trying to put it together and stuffed the drive plate, so be very careful trying to separate it again, if it dosn't come out with little force then you will need to drop the pan and undo the drive plate off the trans, remove the uni from the drive shaft and press it apart.
Langs offered compensation for it at the time who supplied it to me, but I believe the uni's are made by or supplied by Snyders?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson. Moruya, NSW, OZ on Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 11:00 pm:

Thanks for answering Bob,
I'm sorry I should have explained.....
The pic shows it when I bolted it up yesterday. Its all loose now except for the square of the Uni joint which is stuck inside the new ball bearing 4th main.
Cheers,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson. Moruya, NSW, OZ on Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 11:05 pm:

Hi Frank,
Thanks for your answer too.
I bought the universal just a few months back from Langs. It seems like a good one compared to some I've seen, that are supposedly new.
I'm thinking maybe I should just leave it alone and not run the risk of damaging the thing. Work around the problem.
You were posting as I was answering Bob.
Thanks again,
Cheers,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 11:31 pm:

The thing is Rob, that the uni needs to slide some with the diff moving up and down on the suspension.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson. Moruya, NSW, OZ on Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 11:43 pm:

Oh yeah....I forgot about that too.....Shugar.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 03:14 am:

Rob, if you drive out the u joint pin, you should be able to remove the rear axle assembly, leaving the joint in the trans. That should leave you with the joint exposed and unless something is drastically wrong, it should succumb to some judicious levering.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 03:50 am:

If you can get the car to go i was going to suggest putting the car in reverse without the spring shackles in place.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 04:00 am:

This may be a bit obvious, but if it went in, it should come out. Did you drive the u-joint in, or just use a bit of "persuasion"? It should come out with about the same amount of force as it went in with, unless something else happened? Maybe a burr on the shaft? Did you lube the u-joint/output shaft when you installed it? I don't know anything about a ball bearing 4th main though.I know, not much help, but something must not be right.(duh!) Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson. Moruya, NSW, OZ on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 05:32 am:

I'm sleeping on it.
My brains trust and I will investigate it all a little closer, tomorrow, when I don't feel so *$#@*&* stupid for getting into this situation in the 1st place.
Thanks for the suggestions. To answer one of them....
The uni joint started to slide into the hole OK to start with, but the last 10mm (less than 1/2 ") was tight, so I slowly pressed it all the way home by tightening the 4 bolts alternatively.
I'll give you a 'heads up' tomorrow.
Once again, "Thank You" for the advice.
Cheers,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph W. Rudzik on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 11:24 am:

I had this happen to me years ago when I started working on my '20 touring. I put the u-joint in with the pin hole 90 degrees out. Would not come out. My dad helped me remove it with a tire iron and BFH. He put the tire iron through the joint and whomped it once with hammer and it came right out. Since then, I make sure I know where the pin hole is.

Joe R.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson. Moruya, NSW, OZ on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 04:09 pm:

Isn't it remarkable what a good nights sleep can do for your brain. (Tiny brain in my case)
So, I went out this morning, undid the 2 screwed plugs and drove out the uni joint to driveshaft pin.
As you'd expect, then the whole engine pulled out easily.
This however is only half the problem sorted, as the uni is still stuck in the gearbox....but at least I have easy access to it now.
I'll keep you posted.
Again, thanks for all the advice.
Cheers,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 08:55 pm:

If it was me I agree pull u joint pin remove the driveshaft rear end assy then you can right a puller on u joint
Only funning you mate as you picture shows it bolted up
Best of luck if closer I surely lend a hand


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 10:10 pm:

I would rig up a puller with a slide hammer and knock that thing back out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson. Moruya, NSW, OZ on Tuesday, November 10, 2015 - 02:45 am:

Don't panic. Relax, its all OK now.
A friend and I managed to separate the two by applying some tyre iron pressure to the uni joint and giving the U joint a sharp rap with a hammer.
Once again, Thanks for your suggestions and advice.
I'll sleep better tonight.
Cheers,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Tuesday, November 10, 2015 - 03:16 am:

You still have one problem Rob, the uni still doesn't fit! more than likely a good file should do the trick.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, November 10, 2015 - 01:15 pm:

Your uni will have shiny spots where it's fitting too tightly, likely the corners--that's where to file!(or Dremel). Also check for any burrs you may have created forcing it on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson. Moruya, NSW, OZ on Tuesday, November 10, 2015 - 03:07 pm:

After some fairly minor massaging the U joint now slides easily. Hooray.
I cant believe just how little was causing it to be stuck so tight. Anyway, all is OK now.

I've been a member, off and on, of this forum for around 12 years now and it never ceases to amaze me just how much good advice can be gained from asking just one dumb question.

I'd also like to extend a "Thank you" to John Regan (Fun Projects) and John Stoltz (Model T Ranch) who have taken the time to email me with information on this problem and guidance on what to look out for in the future while building this speedster project. Both are "Good Guys" in the hobby

Cheers,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Tuesday, November 10, 2015 - 04:09 pm:

To John and John, can you post the info you sent Rob here on the forum so that we can all learn from it?

If for some reason you don't want to post the info, can you send the same emails to me that you sent to Rob?

Always open to learning new things,

Thanks! :-)


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