What Bolt/Part Am I Missing? 26 Motor.

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: What Bolt/Part Am I Missing? 26 Motor.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 03:52 pm:

Cleaning up my 26 (Nov. 26) motor and I have a threaded casting on the front timing cover just to the right of the oil filler cap and right next to a wire clip.
Crammed with old oil, so whatever went in there has been missing from a while.

something fron an earlier version of the motor? Or something mising that I need to replace?

Threadeds feel like the go all the way through the casting from passenger side which has been ground flat to the drivers side with is rough casting.

Thought it might be some sort of fan belt adjuster, but can't find anything in the manual.

I'll hang up and listen.

Thanks in advance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 03:59 pm:

Looks like you have an earlier timing cover. The 26-27 doesn't have the 'boss' with the threaded hole for the fan arm adjusting screw (if that's what I'm seeing).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 04:13 pm:

If you use this engine in an earlier car, you might want to keep the front plate. It will work on a 26-27 just as it is, but will not be correct. The chassis is earlier and if you have a low radiator on this car, such as a brass radiator, you will need to use the correct fan, bracket, and fan pulley for the year.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 04:15 pm:

As Terry suggests, that hole has a bolt going through it that pushes against a nub on the bottom of the fan arm. Tightening the bolt swings the fan arm to the left, thus tightening the fan belt. The fan arm mounts on the bolt just to the right of the projection you're asking about. As Terry also says, this is for pre-26 cars and was probably not needed for your 26/27 car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 04:18 pm:

Yes, I have an earlier frame and am going to do a 1915 brass radiator front end and a light open express body on the rer.

So I need to replace the pully, bracket and fan? What will this do to my water inlet? What bracket? No bracket, other than the timing camshaft 4 wired thingamabobby.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 04:29 pm:

Putting a brass radiator on it will cause a misalignment between the water outlet on the motor and the water inlet on the radiator, It would be easiest to put a low head on it and use the appropriate water outlet for a low head.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 04:39 pm:

If you are going with a brass radiator, to make everything align as originally, you'll need to switch to a LOW head; switch to a water outlet used on the low head for use with a brass radiator, and use the appropriate fan and fan adjusting arm. These are the minimum things. There may be things that I am forgetting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 04:40 pm:

A low head isn't necessary, with the water outlet from a low head it'll line up fine with a brass radiator.
You need a pre 26 style fan setup, should be easy enough to find. Repro parts are also available. And the timing cover with an unused threaded hole for the older fan adjustment bolt was standard for a november 1925 built '26 style engine. The new timing cover didn't arrive until february 1, 1926. (I see you wrote nov. 26 in your post above, but according to another thread with engine # in the 12,6XX,xxx it's a november 25 built engine you've got)

(Message edited by Roger K on November 09, 2015)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 04:54 pm:

Robert,

Here are some of the items you would need to make the front of the engine look appropriate for a '15. (Photos from Lang's)





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 06:15 pm:

Wow! Great stuff. Thanks to all. Who'd a thunk? I've got another head in the family garage in Leavenworth that I presume is a low head. I'll have to check. And, if its got a water inlet on it, then I'm one step closer.

Yes, Nov. 25 DOD, NOT Nov. 26. I was under the impression that the Ford script was not on the later heads, so I just presumed a low head. But I'll do some research and see the differences and see what this head is in the garage. I need some bolts and castle nuts from it anyway. I don't think it has a timing cover and/or fan assembly for me to salvage.

But, I'll be in Moultrie, GA on the 20th for their auto swap meet, I'll keep an eye out for the fan stuff.

IF I'm not extremely concerned about the correctness of the years, can I get close with the present set up? What will not fit in this 26 fan set up on a low brass radiator. I'm not going to suggest trimming the fan blades, but since I know this pully, fan and belt work, I'd hate to start mixing and matching unless I have to for practical reasons.

This vehicle, when complete, will always be a Model T salad. Sorry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 07:29 pm:

That cover is correct for a Nov 1925 Improved style engine. The new style cam cover was added on Feb. 1 1926. The side straps for the rear engine mount came out Nov 4 1925. It can be up to several weeks for all the different branches to catch up to the new parts, so there is sometimes overlap of both styles used for awhile .. This has been discussed on a previous thread, but Im not where I can look it up ...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 07:44 pm:

The 26/27 style fan on the water outlet won't fit with a low 1909-16 brass style radiator. And you won't be able to connect the upper radiator hose.
Since the frame and engine already are from different years, then some more mixing wouldn't make much difference as long as it'll fit and run, I think :-)
But it depends on what's your goal with the car - besides having fun?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 08:04 pm:

Ouch!

Radiator hoses and a few clamps and these parts and it's a quick $300.

Hope I find some good deals in Moultri this month. Or some more digging in the family garage. The running T in that garage is a 17, so maybe some spares laying around.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 08:29 pm:

Well, hopefully I can make these work.

For $15, I can buy the bracket for that. At least it gets me closer. No, for the water inlet....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T. Tannehill III, Hot Coffee, MS on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 08:43 pm:

Robert I would strongly encourage you to soda blast the fan blade to be sure there are no cracks around the hub and that the blades are tight. That 15 bucks will be really expensive if it goes through a $1000 dollar radiator or worse some one is standing to the side of the engine and a blade slings loose and hits them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 09:33 pm:

Robert, the fan and pulley will work with your brass radiator. (check for cracks closely) You need a low head, short water neck, and a short crooked fan bracket. (the parts Jerry showed above) The straight long fan bracket you show above will not work with a brass radiator. I believe a high head will also work, but for the WW1 Light Patrol car you are wanting to somewhat replicate. I think a low head will be a better looking choice. Everything else about your 26-27 engine will work OK. But you can change all the pedals to the narrow style to look correct for WW1 era if you want to. You can even put block off plates on the starter and generator and make a non-starter car. It is a lot less parts to worry with and the starter was not available till 1919 anyway. To keep the looks as close as possible, you should also find a coil box with the switch on the coil box. That is the style used in WW1 era. May I suggest something.? I would always put something in your posts and questions about what you are building. Something like "WW1 Light Patrol car project question" A lot of us have been following your project and questions and are "in the know" about it. But lots of folks are not. I think you will get better, more direct and purpose related answers, with less confusion. But as always have fun and be safe. Submitted with respect Donnie Brown ...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 10:12 pm:

Great advice from all. Yes, I have a small soda blasting box and would go over this fan and make any necessary repairs.
Sounds like I still need a low head and water inlet, correct fan bracket and the fan adjusting bolt to complete this transition.

I am lining up the switch mounted coil box to put on the wood firewall and not use the engine mounted coil box and dash mounted ignition switch and amp gage that came with the 26/27 cowl. Those, alone with the tall radiator and high head and 26/27 hood, headlgihts and bar all look like good trading material for what I will need for the WWI era project. I may leave the pedals alone for now and that can always be a field modification down the road.

The starter and foot starter switch is something we are used to with our WWII jeep and as my wife will be the driver of this light patrol car, having something she can start on her own brings a value to it over and above the historical accuracy of the vehicle.

But it needs to cool, so all this fan transition is great help.

If I can't find what I need at Moultrie, I'll order from Lang's and get the hoses and clamps as well and set it all aside while I wait for the paint to dry on the engine.

don't ask hat color. . . it's a secret.

Thanks to all.


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration